WAMU

INFO, NOT FROM FOAF, BUT FROM MY BOSS. TODAY HE WENT TO MAKE OUR DEPOSIT (TRUCKING COMPANY) A BIT OVER 19,000 THAT CAME IN OVER THE WEEKEND.

THE BRANCH MANAGER CAME UP TO HIM AND SAID THAT WAMU HAS A NEW POLICY AND WILL PUT HOLDS ON ALL DEPOSITS WHETHER IT BE BUSINESS OR PERSONAL. OUT OF THE 19,000 THEY WERE GOING TO MAKE 4,000 AVAILABLE AND THE REST AVAILABLE ON 5/2. WHAT THE HECK IS UP WITH THAT? THEY HAVE NEVER PUT HOLDS ON OUR DEPOSITS AND WE NEED THE $'S RIGHT NOW AS WE DO NOT OPERATE ON A LINE OF CREDIT.

ANYWAY, MY BOSS WENT TO THE MANAGER'S DESK AND ASKED WHY? I DON'T KNOW WHY WAS THE RESPONSE, IT'S OUR NEW POLICY.

MY BOSS SAID, I'LL TELL YOU WHY! YOUR BANK IS IN TROUBLE, YOUR STOCKS ARE IN THE BARREL AND YOU WANT TO PLAY WITH MY $200,000 DEPOSITS A MONTH WITHOUT PAYING ME INTEREST SO YOU CAN PAY YOUR BILLS. IF I WERE YOU I'D BE LOOKING FOR A NEW JOB BECAUSE YOUR BUSINESS CUSTOMERS WILL NOT PUT UP WITH THIS AND LEAVE JUST AS I AM ~ MAY I HAVE MY DEPOSIT BACK?

AFTER 8 YEARS OF DOING BUSINESS WITH WAMU AND NEVER HAVING A VENDOR'S CHECK BOUNCE, THIS HAS TO BE DUE TO WAMU'S FINANCIAL TROUBLES.

MY APOLOGIES FOR THE - ALL CAPS - IT'S HARD TO SEE ON THIS TINY MONITOR.

Had a customer say to me several weeks ago...that she had pulled all of their money from WAMU......sounds like they got out in the nick of time.

5/2? Thats almost 2 weeks! Sounds like a liquidity issue....maybe a deadline?

My bank just did the same thing to me on 2 life insurance policy deposits. They put a 11 business day hold on them. At first they said it was because they were out of state checks (major, well known insurance company checks), then the message they sent in the mail said it was because it was over $5000. They did make $4000 of it available after 5 days....sporting of them, huh??

So I am waiting until my 11 days are up so I can pay off some bills. As soon as I can get all the bills paid off, I am going to close that account and just use the local credit union.

Wamu is in big do do. I heard they are going to be bought out.. Years ago they prided them selves for buying out other banks. Now the table turns. Pride goes before destruction.

My local credit union holds checks for 12 business days.

I just deposited a $20.000.00 personal check 2 weeks ago at wells fargo and the money was available the next day. Is it diffrent for personal checks?

This is messed up...

The law was changed not to long ago that check amounts could be taken out of your account as soon as the person deposited it. No more floating checks, remember that??? Now the banks are still taking the amounts out of your account but not depositing the money in their customer's accounts. How convenient for the banks huh? They and we are in such doo doo.

I've sort of gotten around the problem by having certain checks sent as cashier's checks...the credit union will allow me to write checks on my account, when I get a cashier's check. I may have to pay a very minimal fee to the sender, but in my case, it's worth it. I don't do it more than a very few times a year.

If they are treating even their business customers like this then the handwriting is on the wall.

Thanks for the info CYD.

I can't imagine any of the banks are doing that well, really.

Mike

This will be getting worse, and spreading to every bank as more and more of them are starting to curtail their "loans" from the Term Securities Lending Facility, and other "economic welfare" conduits from the FedRes. They knew that back in mid March, when these "freebies" started that it would only be good for three iterations of 28 days each before they would have to either stop (if they were non Repo), or pay them back (if they were "Loans"). Well, right now it is 49 days to go before the end of that 28+28+28 cycle, which will end sometime around June 10th. When (or before) that happens, either they will have to find a way to pay all of the borrowed monies back (to avoid all of that turning into inflation (think Wiemar Republic)), OR they will end up NOT paying it back, and we will see prices jack up "significantly" overnight. If they are getting ready to pay it back, then these "holds" could be getting people used to the mechanism that will be used on or before June 10th. If they are planning to NOT pay it back, and let inflation hit the skids, then this could be part of the rationing plans that look like they are starting to happen in other sectors (like the food sectors in the news lately).

My suggestion is to:

• Keep watch on as much of the news and info as you can (especially here on TB2K).
• Realize that something is going to have to go through a "correction", and that "corrections" are usually painful. "They" are not going to want to go through a "correction" and are probably looking for any way possible to pass the "pain" on to you (the customer, whether that be of the bank or store).
• Think about what you are going to need in the next 90 to 180 days, and make sure that you have those needs filled. We are already seeing JIT "hiccups", and will see them happen more and more often in the near future as more and more "deviations" from people's normal buying habits hit the system.
• Realize that banks are in a MASSIVE CTA (Cover Their A$$) mode, and that they are not out to help you, unless it just happens to help them first. They see your deposits as a slush fund, the same as a lot of companies saw their own employee's retirement funds as "their money" and spent them when needed.
• Make sure that ANY deviations from the normal operations of ANY business (banks, supermarkets, and other stores/businesses) get posted back here on TB2K. The reason is that they will all be "dots" in showing the hand of which way these guys are panning to take this country (gutting the system versus Wiemar). As long as we have this small heads up, then we have at least a few days over most people that are stuck, vegged out on American Idle...

Time is short, folks. Tempers are going to get VERY nasty before it all hits the skids for the long term. Whether it goes Wiemar, or our money simply disappears overnight as the banks implode, it means the same thing, people will not be able to buy the things that they need to keep living at the rates that they come to expect as "normal" (and maybe not even at the rates that they see as "tolerable"). There is NO WAY that the JIT system can handle the ramp up of even 1/10th of the population starting to "stock up", so we are already seeing the problems that it is causing NOW, just wait till more people start putting 2 and 2 together and finally coming up with 4, and realizing that their "crazy aunt Sheryl" wasn't crazy at all. They will be several months (or years) too late on the prepping game, and not be ready physically, mentally, or spiritually for what is coming.

It will get nasty. And don't expect TPTB to come and help...At least without "costing" you a great price.

ETA: And as others have said, thanks for the info, CYD.

Loup

Most all banks 'scan in' checks and the deposit (or withdrawl from account the check is written on) is instantaneous. Most all banks also have a time period every day that 'live' banking takes place (maybe 9a-3p). That time period is same day deposits which translates to same day availability of deposited funds.

It does sound like WAMU is in trouble or getting ready for a buyout/merge. My local bank was bought out/merged with another bank last year. During that timeperiod of audits, etc we did have some timeframe issues regarding deposits and funds availability, but that was short lived-couple weeks while all that stuff was going on.

They had a sign that stated they were sorry for any inconvenience it might be cuasing, but it was a necessary evil due to the process of the change in ownership. That ended quickly and we have never had any delays since.

Either WAMU is playing the "float" and using your deposit as their play money -or- the banks don't trust any -other- bank to actually be able to back up the check. Like when an idividual orders something mail order and they hold the check for two weeks before shipping?

Fractional banking and fiat currency are -all- about trust.

Lose that trust and nothing will stop that panic.

I got out of the banks over a year ago.

lw

I had my bank want top put a hold on a $2000 check I received from an insurance company recently and I complained to the manager and they gave me access to the money right away. I have banked there 20 years and never had a problem.

What I don't understand is that in this instant electronic age where we can buy something at the store with a credit card or debit card and almost instantly the transfer is made (at the worst by the end of the business day) why in the world do they think we are supposed to believe there is any need for even 3 days delay (which is what my bank wanted) for funds to be made available to us?

It is quite obvious that they are stringing us along to use our money to pay their debts interest free. That is scary.

I take credit card payments for my business and when I run a card through - the money shows up in my account the next business day so I know it doesn't take 3 days for financial transfers.

We are living in the 21st century of impressive electronic financial connections and they are trying to make us believe that the banks still run on 20th century time tables? They really do think the sheeple are well trainged and sadly many of them are.

1) 5/2 is actually LESS than 10 working days, which has been a pretty standard hold for EONS for out of area deposits, sight drafts, and tax checks.

That actually isn't bad. Now your boss's branch manager handled this VERY poorly if all he said was "I dunno. It's policy now." because there are a NUMBER of answers to that question.

2) You got away with one on your insurance check since they are in the top 3 hot check types out there... YOU and *I* know OUR insurance checks are FINE but in GENERAL if there is gonna be a check that bounces the PROBABILTY is that it will be an Insurance check.


Now before your boss closes the account he's going to want to look VERY CAREFULLY at the Availability Schedule for any other bank he's going to because he might be awkwardly surprised to find that the rest of the banks in the area aer worse.....TERRIBLY embarrassing to have to go back to the branch you just did a Righteous display of Righteous Indignation only to find that they are the best of the lot....

I wrote a check on my 5th/3rd bank account and deposited it in my US bank. I was told that half of it would be available after 5 days and the other half after 11 banking days. Both of these banks are local, you know they could find out in a minute if I had enough in my 5th/3rd account to cover the check.

Putting a 5, 7, and 10 day hold on large deposits has been standard operating procedure for a long time, years.

WAMU was putting a 10 day hold on large deposits in 2006. I asked the branch manager and he said it was corporate. When corporate was contacted, they said it was a branch decision. Asking the branch manager then, if he was trying to get me to move to another bank, seemed to work as the holds stopped.

I've heard of putting a hold on insurance checks for a while now. I'm not sure why. I guess they don't trust the insurance companies for some reason. If you are someone living day to day with disability insurance, good luck.

I'm sure as their trust in general starts to decline we'll be seeing other checks being held as well. That's why I only deposit enough money each week to pay my bills.

I found this online at: http://www.consumersunion.org/blogs/fpn/2006/10/tired_of_waiting_for_your_depo.html

Tired of waiting for your deposits to clear? Posted by Gail at 10/31/06 06:59 PM

It has been two years since the start of the federal “Check 21” law and consumers are waiting for check hold times to be reduced. In fact, we’ve had the same long hold times for local and nonlocal checks since 1990! Your bank, savings and loan, or credit union can make you wait through a hold time lasting until the second day for a local check, and the fifth day for a nonlocal check – and weekends don’t count toward these time periods. The Federal Reserve Board has an obligation to reduce check hold times when check processing speeds up, and they are doing a study of check processing speeds right now. Today, six national consumer groups called on the Fed to make sure that study covers all the questions needed to follow the study with a change in regulations to reduce check holds: http://www.consumersunion.org/pdf/checkholdFRB.pdf

Tell Consumers Union about your experience with check holds at: www.consumersunion.org/finance/checkholdSYS.htm, or by filing a comment here. Protect yourself, don’t include private information like your account number in your comment.http://www.consumersunion.org/blogs/fpn/2006/10/tired_of_waiting_for_your_depo.html

It seems like the point of the original post was that this was unusual for the poster's boss.

Kathleen

jazzman, just because the branches aer local doesn't mean that they CLEAR CHECKS locally.

Here in Cleveland there is a place where 5 or 6 LARGE banks clear the checks from their local branches locally. It USED to be a VERY exclusive restaurant now it is a manual hand clearing shop, where checks actually get handed to other banks for clearance locally.


PLUS since we have a branch of the FED here we have an interesting nightly swap of checks n such down at the airport as planes come in from all over the country and then go home again.

I'm not a financial type person by any means, but I wonder......

Is this conditioning to 'try' to get away from all things *paper*?

Aren't Direct Deposit funds usually immediately available within hours?

(Make something frustrating enough and people WILL want change)



BFC

Had this happen to me at my bank earlier this year. I wrote a check from my personal account in one state to my personal account where we live. The told me there would be a 5 day hold on the money. I told them that was stupid but I would comply with their policy. The next day I received a letter stating that it would be 11 days or longer that the money would be held. I called them and told them that I couldn't do anything about their choice this time but they would not be getting anymore of my money in CDs and that since the money was from my account and would be transfered instantly I would know when they received the money and I had better get interest from the minute that they got it or I was going to bring charges against them for theft and misconduct. The woman was sputtering. All she could get out was that this was standard policy. I told her that I might not could take the money out but that the interest better be paid from the date they received and not the date released.

For those (like me) who didn't know what "WAMU" meant, it stands for WAshington MUtual Bank.


Saw a link which perhaps was the beginning of their capital shortage?


Mar 7, 2008 ... SEATTLE – Standard & Poor's Ratings Services lowered its rating on a Washington Mutual Bank-backed bond issue Friday

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20080307-1527-washingtonmutual-bondrating.html

Freeholder said:

It seems like the point of the original post was that this was unusual for the poster's boss.

Kathleen

Click to expand...

Very unusual! We know all the tellers and they have been wonderful to us at two different branches about 50 miles apart. When we make our deposits the computer automatically puts a hold on a deposit over a certain amount. The teller always calls over a supervisor and they punch in a special code that overrides that which makes the funds available pronto. For whatever reason, not anymore.

"Steve" went with Wells Fargo. He had a meeting with the branch manager yesterday and as long as your deposits are made by 4:00 p.m. (no matter how large), the funds will be available.

night driver said:

1) 5/2 is actually LESS than 10 working days, which has been a pretty standard hold for EONS for out of area deposits, sight drafts, and tax checks....

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Man, I don't know where ya'll bank, but I've had a business account, trucking, since 1997 with Wells Fargo. I have *never* had a hold put on my deposited checks. If it is deposited before 3pm, it is clear for next business day use.

Even checks I send to a very small, rural, one owner bank in W. Texas clear my account the same day that bank receives them. I never get those checks back, as they are marked electronic transfer... but the money is there quickly, with no additional charges.

Should this change, I will increase my holdings, and look for another bank that provides service. Cash looks better all the time...

http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/6500-3240.html

SEC. 603. EXPEDITED FUNDS AVAILABILITY SCHEDULES.

(a) NEXT BUSINESS DAY AVAILABILITY FOR CERTAIN DEPOSITS.--
(1) CASH DEPOSITS; WIRE TRANSFERS.--Except as provided in subsection (e) and in section 604, in any case in which--
(A) any cash is deposited in an account at a receiving depository institution staffed by individuals employed by such institution, or
(B) funds are received by a depository institution by wire transfer for deposit in an account at such institution,
such cash or funds shall be available for withdrawal not later than the business day after the business day on which such cash is deposited or such funds are received for deposit.
{{4-28-00 p.7426}}
(2) GOVERNMENT CHECKS; CERTAIN OTHER CHECKS.--Funds deposited in an account at a depository institution by check shall be available for withdrawal not later than the business day after the business day on which such funds are deposited in the case of--
(A) a check which--
(i) is drawn on the Treasury of the United States; and
(ii) is endorsed only by the person to whom it was issued;
(B) a check which--
(i) is drawn by a State;
(ii) is deposited in a receiving depository institution which is located in such State and is staffed by individuals employed by such institution;
(iii) is deposited with a special deposit slip which indicates it is a check drawn by a State; and
(iv) is endorsed only by the person to whom it was issued;
(C) a check which--
(i) is drawn by a unit of general local government;
(ii) is deposited in a receiving depository institution which is located in the same State as such unit of general local government and is staffed by individuals employed by such institution;
(iii) is deposited with a special deposit slip which indicates it is a check drawn by a unit of general local government; and
(iv) is endorsed only by the person to whom it was issued;
(D) the first $100 deposited by check or checks on any one business day;
(E) a check deposited in a branch of a depository institution and drawn on the same or another branch of the same depository institution if both such branches are located in the same State or the same check processing region;
(F) a cashier's check, certified check, teller's check, or depository check which--
(i) is deposited in a receiving depository institution which is staffed by individuals employed by such institution;
(ii) is deposited with a special deposit slip which indicates it is a cashier's check, certified check, teller's check, or depository check, as the case may be; and
(iii) is endorsed only by the person to whom it was issued.
(b) PERMANENT SCHEDULE.—
(1) Availability of funds deposited by local checks.--Subject to paragraph (3) of this subsection, subsections (a)(2), (d), and (e) of this section, and section 604, not more than 1 business day shall intervene between the business day on which funds are deposited in an account at a depository institution by a check drawn on a local originating depository institution and the business day on which the funds involved are available for withdrawal.
(2) Availability of funds deposited by nonlocal checks.--Subject to paragraph (3) of this subsection, subsections (a)(2),(d), and (e) of this section, and section 604, not more than 4 business days shall intervene between the business day on which funds are deposited in an account at a depository institution by a check drawn on a nonlocal originating depository institution and the business day on which such funds are available for withdrawal.
(3) Time period adjustments for cash withdrawal of certain checks.—
(A) IN GENERAL.--Except as provided in subparagraph (B), funds deposited in an account in a depository institution by check (other than a check described in subsection (a)(2)) shall be available for cash withdrawal not later than the business day after the business day on which such funds otherwise are available under paragraph (1) or (2).
(B) 5 p.m. CASH AVAILABILITY.--Not more than $400 (or the maximum amount allowable in the case of a withdrawal from an automated teller machine but not more than $400) of funds deposited by one or more checks to which this paragraph applies shall be available for cash withdrawal not later than 5 o'clock post meridian of the business day on which such funds are available under paragraph (1) or (2). If funds deposited by checks described in both paragraph (1) and paragraph (2) become available for cash withdrawal
{{4-28-00 p.7427}}under this paragraph on the same business day, the limitation contained in this subparagraph shall apply to the aggregate amount of such funds.
(C) $100 AVAILABILITY.--Any amount available for withdrawal under this paragraph shall be in addition to the amount available under subsection (a)(2)(D).
(4) APPLICABILITY.--This subsection shall apply with respect to funds deposited by check in an account at a depository institution on or after September 1, 1990, except that the Board may, by regulation, make this subsection or any part of this subsection applicable earlier than September 1, 1990.
(c) TEMPORARY SCHEDULE.--
(1) AVAILABILITY OF LOCAL CHECKS.--
(A) IN GENERAL.--Subject to subparagraph (B) of this paragraph, subsections (a)(2), (d), and (e) of this section, and section 604, not more than 2 business days shall intervene between the business day on which funds are deposited in an account at a depository institution by a check drawn on a local originating depository institution and the business day on which such funds are available for withdrawal.
(B) Time period adjustment for cash withdrawal of certain checks.--
(i) IN GENERAL.--Except as provided in clause (ii), funds deposited in an account in a depository institution by check drawn on a local depository institution that is not a participant in the same check clearinghouse association as the receiving depository institution (other than a check described in subsection (a)(2)) shall be available for cash withdrawal not later than the business day after the business day on which such funds otherwise are available under subparagraph (A).
(ii) 5 p.m. CASH AVAILABILITY.--Not more than $400 (or the maximum amount allowable in the case of a withdrawal from an automated teller machine but not more than $400) of funds deposited by one or more checks to which this subparagraph applies shall be available for cash withdrawal not later than 5 o'clock post meridian of the business day on which such funds are available under subparagraph (A).
(iii) $100 AVAILABILITY.--Any amount available for withdrawal under this subparagraph shall be in addition to the amount available under subsection (a)(2)(D).
(2) AVAILABILITY OF NONLOCAL CHECKS.--Subject to subsections (a)(2), (d), and (e) of this section and section 604, not more than 6 business days shall intervene between the business day on which funds are deposited in an account at a depository institution by a check drawn on a nonlocal originating depository institution and the business day on which such funds are available for withdrawal.

So what do we do if we have a little "extra" money laying around if we get out of the banking system? Do you keep cash in a safe at home? I am going to pay off everyone I owe (when these checks finally clear), but still have day to day bills that I need a checking acct for. My paychecks are direct deposit only, so I have to have an acct.

Seriously, what do you do with your money if you can't put it in a bank?

10 working day hold is STANDARD here in Cleveland for Key, Dollar, and IIRC Huntington.

5/3 has a 48 hour hold on most out of town checks, depending on source, this may be waived.

night driver said:

10 working day hold is STANDARD here in Cleveland for Key, Dollar, and IIRC Huntington.

5/3 has a 48 hour hold on most out of town checks, depending on source, this may be waived.

Click to expand...

The law - as I posted above from the FDIC.gov

(2) AVAILABILITY OF NONLOCAL CHECKS.--Subject to subsections (a)(2), (d), and (e) of this section and section 604, not more than 6 business days shall intervene between the business day on which funds are deposited in an account at a depository institution by a check drawn on a nonlocal originating depository institution and the business day on which such funds are available for withdrawal.

I got away from WAMU a year ago and went with a bigger local credit union. Dont known how long I'll leave the majority of my $ in that either though, but they are steady... so far.

-Sefus

Well this article about WaMu from last week should answer alot of what's going on, it's titled, "WaMu CEO tells shareholders:"Calm down".

goto http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/15/news/companies/wamu_earnings/?postversion=2008041517

The shareholders were furious last week during a shareholders meeting when they were told that WaMu experienced a $1.1 billion dollar loss in the first quarter.

So obviously WAMU is taking peoples money and holding it so they can float on it and make interest for themselves. They have to make money somehow and just think of the interest being made with hundreds of thousands of peoples deposits they are putting in 'suspended animation' for lack of a better description, in a short period of time?

So CYD, the kinks over at WaMu are just floating on your bosses money and I'd be pissed to if that were my bank. Thank goodness I don't hold accounts with them, I would have closed them down last week. V

It's sad to hear this about Wamu. I've been banking with them for the last two years and they've been the best bank I've ever had. They always waived the holds on established businesses' checks for me. I only remember them holding one check when I first opened the account. It will be interesting to see if their practices have changed. I'm not particularly worried though as we use three different banks.

pops88 said:

It's sad to hear this about Wamu. I've been banking with them for the last two years and they've been the best bank I've ever had. They always waived the holds on established businesses' checks for me. I only remember them holding one check when I first opened the account. It will be interesting to see if their practices have changed. I'm not particularly worried though as we use three different banks.

Click to expand...

+1

LoupGarou: Make sure that ANY deviations from the normal operations of ANY business (banks, supermarkets, and other stores/businesses) get posted back here on TB2K. The reason is that they will all be "dots" in showing the hand of which way these guys are panning to take this country (gutting the system versus Wiemar). As long as we have this small heads up, then we have at least a few days over most people that are stuck, vegged out on American Idle...

Click to expand...

For sure, we need to keep this in mind.

All of Loups Post #11 above stands to be read again IMO.

Green Co. said:

Man, I don't know where ya'll bank, but I've had a business account, trucking, since 1997 with Wells Fargo. I have *never* had a hold put on my deposited checks. If it is deposited before 3pm, it is clear for next business day use.

Click to expand...

For the most part, this has been my experience, as well. My funds are available usually no later than the next business day at Bank of America. I think they did put a 5-day hold on a tax refund check once, though.

In general, though, because of the law quoted by Emily (the Expedited Funds Availability Act) the hold times for checks are dramatically shorter than they were before 1990. It used to be a common practice for a bank to put a 10-day hold on any check I deposited, since I was self-employed and the checks I received were not "payroll checks," as such. Nowadays, I seldom encounter any hold time at all, as long as the check is one drawn on a bank within the same Federal Reserve district.

Quote:
LoupGarou: Make sure that ANY deviations from the normal operations of ANY business (banks, supermarkets, and other stores/businesses) get posted back here on TB2K. The reason is that they will all be "dots" in showing the hand of which way these guys are panning to take this country (gutting the system versus Wiemar). As long as we have this small heads up, then we have at least a few days over most people that are stuck, vegged out on American Idle...

Click to expand...

I just had a friend over who was telling me that they just refinanced their car loan through their insurance company. I have never heard of an insurance company making car loans.

They also have incredibly low income (husband is looking for work right now but working as a substitute teacher making $70 a day gross pay) and they have a huge mortgage payment that they can barely pay. They were about to go into default on their car payments when the insurance company called offering to refi their car loan.
They were honest about their income and got APPROVED. They were shocked but thrilled.

I asked if it was front end loaded (mostly interest for the first 5 years) and she said no - it is a standard car loan payback of mostly principle with interest tacked on each month.

Are we going to start seeing the same thing happen in the car loan industry that happened to the mortgage industry - liar loans giving a false value to the company's bottom line based on AR?

I thought it was unusual and thought to post it here. Maybe I should start another thread on this topic - but was responding to the quote above.