(INTL) Why the U.S. will attack Iraq in April (must read)

Patrick:

Has it ever occurred to you that you may be right about your sources (not commenting on that at the moment) and WRONG in ass-uming that the U.S. isn't going to get hammered regardless of what the respective earthly PTB do?

I've read this thread, and most of the others that I've had time to assimilate and I am now convinced that there is NO WAY that the U.S. is going to emerge from this unscathed.

Indeed the dogs of war HAVE been unleashed. IIWY Patrick, - I'd watch my behind and learn how to duck! Having what you consider to be foreknowledge of how and who will bring in and sit atop the heirarchy of the NWO won't do you very much good in a nuclear blitz or a huge outbreak of SP or the plague.

Knowledge isn't *always* power.

JMHO - Jesse.

The thick skull is to protect me from people trying to beat me with the old "The USA is evil and we deserve everything we are going to get".

Lets all join in with BWD in a rousing kumbya my lord.

Dave, if it got down to it, I will fight. But first I have to combat the snobbish elitist here.

I never told you to shut up and not post. Take a lot more than lil ol me to do that.
Maybe a kiloton or so of TNT.

Several yards of concrete.

Or California sliding into the sea.

Jesse...

.....You'll notice that I didn't say we would not get "hammered"; I said we would not get "nuked"... big difference; that said, they have a plan to do away with many of us, should they have their way... However, Our Father has a plan of His own...

As per original post, and the subject of Vreeland.

Vreeland knows his bosses better than we do. Now that he is out, he knows that his survival is far less likely. The only "safe " move for his bosses, who appear to want him eliminated, was to get him out of jail. Interesting how it happened so suddenly, without his lawyers in court. Raises some crucial questions here, which IMO, are far more important than any other discussion. And those questions are "Just what did the US govt know?" and "Why are they attempting to get Vreeland out in the open?"

Here are two posts from Rupert thingy's mirror site...

www.bighula.com/copvcia
BREAKING NEWS

US NAVAL OFFICER WHO WROTE ADVANCE WARNINGS OF 9-11 ORDERED FREED ON BAIL WHILE LAWYERS NOT PRESENT, JUDGE MAKES PUBLIC THE ADDRESS WHERE "MIKE" VREELAND WILL BE LIVING AND ORDERS CURFEW HOURS -THE SAME ORDER IN 1986 LED TO THE PUBLIC EXECUTION OF INTELLIGENCE OPERATIVE AND DRUG SMUGGLER BARRY SEAL

TORONTO, LOS ANGELES, March 14, 2002, 3 PM PST - (FTW) This morning, a man who claims to be a US Naval officer and who, as acknowledged by Canadian authorities, wrote an advance warning of the September 11 attacks, was ordered released on bail by Mr. Justice Hamilton, presiding over a surprise bail hearing in the case. As he ordered bail, in response to a previously filed motion filed last month by Vreeland, Hamilton entered into public record and announced in open court the address of a Toronto apartment belonging to Vreeland's mother where Vreeland is ordered to reside. Curfew hours were set between 7 P.M. and 7 A.M.

Vreeland's attorney, Paul Slansky was not present when the judge rendered his decision. FTW has learned that Vreeland's attorneys were caught completely off guard by the latest development in a case that is beginning to attract worldwide attention.

FTW Canadian correspondent Greta Knutsen was present in the courtroom and stated that the judge was stern with Vreeland and indicated that he did not have much faith that Vreeland would successfully complete the terms of bail.

The judge's opinion may have more than one meaning.

In 1986, U.S. drug dealer and acknowledged intelligence operative Barry Seal was released on bail from federal custody in Baton Rouge, Louisiana and ordered to reside at a halfway house, the address of which was made public. Within days he was gunned down in a hail of bullets outside the residence by an assassination team, members of which were subsequently linked to Iran-Contra figure Oliver North and Colombian and CIA covert drug operations.

Yesterday, the prestigious publication "The UN Observer" contacted FTW Publisher/Editor Mike Ruppert, asked for and obtained permission to reprint our earlier stories on the Vreeland case. Vreeland's assertions, based upon documentary evidence and continuing court proceedings have steadily been gaining credibility in spite of unfounded and meritless attacks by U.S. media that have failed to address any of the specific documentation in the case.

Developing˜





by

Michael C. Ruppert

March 15, 2002, 10:50 AM PST (FTW) -- Delmart "Mike" Vreeland is out of danger for the time being.

9-11 whistleblower Delmart "Mike" Vreeland, the US Navy officer who wrote a written warning of the 9-11 attacks, a month before they occurred, was released on bail yesterday after a hearing in Toronto Superior Court in which he was ordered to reside at a Toronto apartment leased by his mother. At the time the bail release order was issued, the address was made part of the public record and announced in open court, raising immediate fears that Vreeland, who has expressed fear for his safety, would become easy prey for would-be assassins. The same pattern was followed immediately before the public execution of drug smuggler and intelligence operative Barry Seal in 1986.

Late yesterday afternoon, FTW Publisher/Editor Mike Ruppert spoke by telephone with both Vreeland and his attorney, Paul Slansky, and learned that Canadian authorities had agreed, shortly after the court hearing, to allow Vreeland to change his approved residence location to an undisclosed address in the Toronto vicinity in order to ensure his safety.

FTW has also learned that all Canadian charges connected to Vreeland's December 2000 arrest have been dropped and that Vreeland, who is seeking permanent political refugee status in Canada, has been granted temporary refugee status until February 2003, or until his extradition case has been resolved in Canadian courts. Vreeland, who has also served as an informant on organized crime investigations in the US, allegedly while working as a Naval intelligence officer, has stated in Canadian court proceedings that he fears immediate assassination if forced to return to the US because of his ability to prove US government foreknowledge of the 9-11 attacks and because of continuing threats from Russian and American organized crime.

Canadian courts have continually refused to allow Vreeland or his attorneys to present mounting evidence validating his assertions -- in many cases corroborated by official records -- that he was a Naval lieutenant conducting secret intelligence operations for the US government in Russia just before his Canadian arrest on Michigan fraud charges in December 2000. Vreeland's claims that a Canadian diplomat, Marc Bastien, was murdered in Moscow, originally denied by Canadian officials, have since proven true as a result of autopsy findings. The Canadian government has since acknowledged that Bastien was murdered.

It was on these 2000 intelligence operations in Russia that Vreeland obtained the information which told him attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon -- among other targets -- were pending, and that US intelligence was aware of them. Vreeland's warning note, sealed and placed in the sole custody of Canadian jailers on Aug. 11 or 12, also contained the ominous statement, "Let one happen. Stop the rest." That document was entered into evidence in Vreeland's extradition hearing on Oct. 7, 2001. At that time Canadian authorities acknowledged that the letter had been written a month before the attacks.

A copy of the warning letter can be viewed at http://www.copvcia.com/free/ww3/
01_28_02_vreeland.jpg.

hmmm- if this guy is the missing link that somehow proves tptb in fact not only knew of 9-11 but had their fingers in the pie too, i expect either he will disappear soon, or events globally will get so busy and loud that he and his case will get buried by much larger (survival / war) issues.

Jesse-
"Indeed the dogs of war HAVE been unleashed. IIWY Patrick, - I'd watch my behind and learn how to duck! Having what you consider to be foreknowledge of how and who will bring in and sit atop the heirarchy of the NWO won't do you very much good in a nuclear blitz or a huge outbreak of SP or the plague"

no, knowing all that Patrick (and most of the rest of us as well) knows may not help him stay out of the clutches of tptb, but it will make us the most interesting prisoners in the camps. see, there's always an upside to these things. we will be able to enthrall our captive audiences with explanations of who REALLY is behind all the conspiracy, and may well be able to parlay that insider knowledge for someone's daily ration of cigarette, gristle, dried bread, or even an extra sheet of toilet paper.

This thread has led into a whole series of profitable <i>who sold what or provided what to whom</i> questions.

One of the assertions made in <u>Seeds of Fire</u> is that in 1990 the Chinese sold significant quantities of <b>lithium 6 hydride</b> to Iraq.
That is supported by materials cited in 1996 Congressional testimony by John Ashcroft and as found on this <a href="http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/congress/1998/s980313a.htm">FAS.org</a> link and as posted below.
One primary use of lithium 6 hydride appears to be in the production of boosted or enhanced fission devices. That can be seen by perusing (on FAS.org) <a href="http://www.fas.org/nuke/hew/Nwfaq/Nfaq4-3.html">Fission-Fusion Hybrid Weapons</a>.

After reading the below, it seems safe to conclude that China represents a major player in the past and present Middle East wmd arms trade.
R

<center><h4>CHINA'S NON-PROLIFERATION WORDS VS. CHINA'S NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION DEEDS*</h4></center>
[From the Nuclear Control Institute]
<b>Date and what China said What China did</b>

<b>1981</b> --`Like many other peace-loving countries, China does not advocate or encourage nuclear proliferation, and we are emphatically opposed to any production of nuclear weapons by racists and expansionists such as South Africa and Israel.'--Yu Peiwen, head of Chinese delegation to Conference on Disarmament in Geneva, Xinhua, 8/4/81
<i>In 1981, China supplies South Africa (at that time not a member of the NPT and pursuing a nuclear weapons program) with 60 tons of unsafeguarded enriched uranium. This enriched uranium may have enabled South Africa to triple weapons-grade uranium output at the Valindaba facility. 1 In 1981, other unsafeguarded Chinese exports include highly enriched uranium, uranium hexaflouride, and heavy water to Argentina, and heavy water to India. Both nations are non-NPT states with nuclear weapons programs at the time. 2</i>

<b>1983</b> --`China does not encourage or support nuclear proliferation.'--Vice Premier Li Peng, Xinhua, 10/18/83
<i>In 1983, China contracts with Algeria, then a non-NPT state, to construct a large, unsafeguarded plutonium-production reactor. Construction of the reactor complex began after November 1984--well after China's April 1984 pledge to subject all future nuclear exports to IAEA safeguards, and while China is negotiating a nuclear cooperation agreement with the United States. 3 China also supplies Algeria with large hot cells, which can be used to handle highly radioactive spent fuel to separate plutonium. 4</i>

<b>1984</b> --`We are critical of the discriminatory treaty on the nonproliferation of nuclear weapons, but we do not advocate or encourage nuclear proliferation. We do not engage in nuclear proliferation ourselves, nor do we help other countries develop nuclear weapons.'--Premier Zhao Ziyang, White House state dinner on 1/10/84, Xinhua, 1/11/84 (Note: A U.S. official later said that `These were solemn assurances with in fact the force of law,' AP, 6/15/84)
<i>U.S. officials reveal that, in the early 1980s, China provided Pakistan with the design for a nuclear weapon, and probably enough highly enriched uranium (HEU) for one to two bombs. 5 </i>

<b>1985-86</b> --`China has no intention, either at the present or in the future, to help non-nuclear countries develop nuclear weapons.'--Li Peng, Chinese Vice Premier, Xinhua, January 18, 1985
`The Chinese made it clear to us that when they say they will not assist other countries to develop nuclear weapons, this also applies to all nuclear explosives . . . We are satisfied that the [nonproliferation] policies they have adopted are consistent with our own basic views.'--Ambassador Richard Kennedy, Department of State, Congressional testimony, 10/9/85
`Discussions with China that have taken place since the initialling of the proposed [nuclear] Agreement have contributed significantly to a shared understanding with China on what it means not to assist other countries to acquire nuclear explosives, and in facilitating China's steps to put all these new policies into place. Thus, ACDA believes that the statements of policy by senior Chinese officials, as clarified by these discussions, represent a clear commitment not to assist a non-nuclear-weapon state in the acquisition of nuclear explosives.'--ACDA, `Nuclear Proliferation Assessment Statement,' submitted to Congress on 7/24/85 with the U.S./China Agreement for Cooperation, 7/19/85
`China is not a party to the NPT, but its stance on the question is clear-cut and above-board . . . it stands for nuclear disarmament and disapproves of nuclear proliferation . . . In recent years, the Chinese Government has more and more, time and again reiterated that China neither advocates nor encourages nuclear proliferation, and its cooperation with other countries in the nuclear field is only for peaceful purposes': Ambassador Ho Qian Jiadong, speech given at the Conference on Disarmament in Geneva, 6/27/85 (quoted by Amb. Richard Kennedy in congressional testimony, 7/31/85)
<i>In addition to covering up its export of the unsafeguarded reactor to Algeria, China secretly sells Pakistan tritium, an element used in the trigger of hydrogen bombs as well as to boost the yield of fission weapons. 6 </i>

<b>1987-89</b> --`China does not advocate or encourage nuclear proliferation, nor does it help other countries develop nuclear weapons.'--Vice Foreign Minister Qian Qichen, Beijing Review, 3/30/87
`As everyone knows, China does not advocate nor encourage nuclear proliferation. China does not engage in developing or assisting other countries to develop nuclear weapons.'--Foreign Ministry spokesman, Beijing radio, 5/4/89
<i>In 1989, China agrees to build a light-water reactor for Pakistan, begins assisting Iran's development of indigenous manufacturing capability for medium-range ballistic missiles, and assists Iraq in the manufacture of samarium-cobalt ring magnets for uranium-enrichment centrifuges. 7 </i>

<b>1990</b> --`. . . the Chinese government has consistently supported and participated in the international community's efforts for preventing the proliferation of nuclear weapons.'--Ambassador Hou Zhitong, Xinhua, 4/1/91
<i>In September 1990, after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and the imposition of an international trade embargo, <u>China provides Iraq with lithium hydride, a chemical compound useful in both boosted-fission and thermonuclear (hydrogen) bombs, as well as in ballistic missile fuel</u>. 8</i>

<b>1991</b> --`The report claiming that China provides medium-range missiles for Pakistan is absolutely groundless. China does not stand for, encourage, or engage itself in nuclear proliferation and does not aid other countries in developing nuclear weapons.'--Foreign ministry spokesman Wu Janmin, Zhongguo Ximwen She, 4/25/91
<i>Sometime around 1991, China provides ballistic missile technology to Syria, including the nuclear-capable M-9 missile. In 1993, a Chinese corporation exports ammonium perchlorate, a missile fuel precursor, to the Iraqi government via a Jordanian purchasing agent. 9 In August 1993, the United States imposes sanctions on China for exporting nuclear-capable M-11 ballistic missiles to Pakistan. </i>

<b>1991</b> --`China has struck no nuclear deals with Iran . . . This inference is preposterous.' Chinese embassy official Chen Guoqing, rebutting a claim that China had sold nuclear technology to Iran, letter to Washington Post, 7/2/91
<i>In 1991, China supplies Iran with a research reactor capable of producing plutonium 10 and a calutron, a technology that can be used to enrich uranium to weapons-grade. 11 (Calutrons enriched the uranium in the `Little Boy' bomb that destroyed Hiroshima, and were at the center of Saddam Hussein's effort to develop an Iraqi nuclear bomb.) </i>

<b>1994</b> --`China does not engage in proliferation of weapons of mass destruction . . .'--Foreign Minister Qian Qichen, AP newswire, 10/4/94
<i>China supplies a complete nuclear fusion research reactor facility to Iran, and provides technical assistance in making it operational. 12
China, with apparent U.S. acquiescence, agrees to replace France as supplier of low-enriched uranium fuel for India's U.S.-supplied Tarapur reactors. The U.S. cut off supply of LEU soon after India's nuclear explosion of 1974. This LEU supply makes it easier for India to concentrate other nuclear assets on its weapons program. 13 </i>

<b>1995</b> --`China has never transferred or sold any nuclear technology or equipment to Pakistan . . . We therefore hope the U.S. Government will not base its policy-making on hearsay.'--Foreign Ministry Deputy Secretary Shen Guofang, Hong Kong, AFP, 3/26/96 (after discovery of the ring magnet sale to Pakistan)
<i>In 1995, China exports 5,000 ring magnets to Pakistan. Such magnets are integral components of high-speed gas centrifuges of the type used by Pakistan to enrich uranium to weapons-grade. 14</i>

<b>1996</b> --`. . . We have absolutely binding assurances from the Chinese, which we consider a commitment on their part not to export ring magnets or any other technologies to unsafeguarded facilities . . . The negotiating record is made up primarily of conversations, which were detailed and recorded, between U.S. and Chinese officials.'--Under Secretary of State Peter Tarnoff, congressional testimony, 5/16/96
`China's position on nuclear proliferation is very clear . . . It does not advocate, encourage, or engage in nuclear proliferation, nor does it assist other countries in developing nuclear weapons. It always undertakes its international legal obligations of preventing nuclear proliferation . . . China has always been cautious and responsible in handling its nuclear exports and exports of materials and facilities that might lead to nuclear proliferation.'--Statement by Foreign Ministry spokesman Cui Tiankai, Beijing, Xinhua, 9/15/97
<i>In July 1997, a CIA report concludes that, in the second half of 1996, `China was the single most important supplier of equipment and technology for weapons of mass destruction' worldwide. 15 The report also states that, for the period July to December 1996--i.e. after China's May 11, 1996 pledge to the United States not to provide assistance to unsafeguarded nuclear facilities--China was Pakistan's `primary source of nuclear-related equipment and technology . . .' 16 </i>

<b>1997</b> --`The question of assurance does not exist. China and Iran currently do not have any nuclear cooperation . . . We do not sell nuclear weapons to any country or transfer related technology. This is our long-standing position, this policy is targeted at all countries.' Foreign Ministry spokesman Shen Guofang, Los Angeles, 11/2/97, Reuters, 11/3/97
`I wish to emphasize once again China has never transferred nuclear weapons or relevant technology to other countries, including Iran . . . China has never done it in the past, we do not do it now, nor will we do it in the future.'--Foreign Ministry spokesman Shen Guofang, Kyodo, 10/21/97
<i>According to a CIA report, China is `a key supplier' of nuclear technology to Iran, exporting over $60 million worth annually. Fourteen Chinese nuclear experts are reportedly working at Iranian nuclear facilities. 17 </i>

END NOTES

[Footnote] *China's non-proliferation statements are documented in Rep. Benjamin Gilman, `China's Nuclear Nonproliferation Promises: 1981-1997,' Congressional Record, November 5, 1997, p. H10073. China's proliferation deeds are documented in Steven Dolley, `China's Record of Proliferation Misbehavior,' Nuclear Control Institute, September 29, 1997.
[Footnote] 1 Leonard Spector, Nuclear Ambitions, 1990, p. 274; Michael Brenner, `People's Republic of China,' in International Nuclear Trade and Nonproliferation, Ed. William Potter, 1990, p. 253.
[Footnote] 2 Judith Miller, `U.S. is Holding Up Peking Atom Talks,' New York Times, September 19, 1982; Brenner, ibid,; Gary Milhollin and Gerard White, `A New China Syndrome: Beijing's Atomic Bazaar,' Washington Post, May 12, 1991, p. C4.
[Footnote] 3 Vipin Gupta, `Algeria's Nuclear Ambitions,' International Defense Review, #4, 1992, pp. 329-330.
[Footnote] 4 Mark Hibbs, `Move to Block China Certification Doesn't Concern Administration,' Nucleonics Week, August 7, 1997, p. 11.
[Footnote] 5 Leslie Gelb, `Pakistan Link Perils U.S.-China Nuclear Pact,' New York Times, June 22, 1984, p. A1; Leonard Spector et al., Tracking Nuclear Proliferation, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, 1995, p. 49.
[Footnote] 6 Milhollin and White, `A New China Syndrome,' op cit., p. C4.
[Footnote] 7 `Iraq and the Bomb,' MidEast Markets, December 11, 1989, p. 130.
[Footnote] 8 Tim Kelsey, `Chinese Arms Dealers Flaunt U.N. Embargo--China Ships Vital Nuclear Cargo to Iraq,' London Sunday Independent, September 30, 1990, reprinted in Congressional Record, October 18, 1990, p. H10531.
[Footnote] 9 Export Control News, December 30, 1994, p. 14.
[Footnote] 10 Kenneth Timmerman, `Tehran's A-Bomb Program Shows Startling Progress,' Washington Times, May 8, 1995. According to Timmerman, China and Iran did not report the 1991 purchase of this reactor to the IAEA.
[Footnote] 11 Marie Colvin, `Secret Iranian Plans for a Nuclear Bomb,' Sunday Times (London), July 28, 1991; Russell Watson, `Merchants of Death,' Newsweek, November 18, 1991, p. 38.
[Footnote] 12 Gary Milhollin, Wisconsin Project, Testimony before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, September 18, 1997, p. 8.
[Footnote] 13 Mark Hibbs, `Reported VVER-1000 Sale to India Raises NSG Concern on Safeguards,' Nucleonics Week, January 12, 1995, p. 1.
[Footnote] 14 Tim Weiner, `Atom Arms Parts Sold to Pakistan by China, U.S. Says,' New York Times, February 8, 1996, p. A1.
[Footnote] 15 U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, Nonproliferation Center, `The Acquisition of Technology Relating to Weapons of Mass Destruction and Advanced Conventional Munitions,' 1997, p. 5. See also Mark Hibbs, `DOD, ACDA Want China Accord Link to Other Weapons Export Limits,' Nucleonics Week, August 21, 1997, p. 2; Tim Weiner, `China is Top Supplier to Nations Seeking Powerful, Banned Arms,' New York Times, July 3, 1997, p. A10.
[Footnote] 16 CIA report, `The Acquisition of Technology Relating to Weapons of Mass Destruction,' op cit., p. 5.
[Footnote] 17 CIA report, ibid.; Con Coughlin, `U.S. Sounds Alarm Over Iran Nuclear Threat,' Sunday Telegraph (London), February 23, 1997, p. 24.

Just noticed that this thread made the cover page of <a href="http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/">CyberspaceOrbit</a>!

Look just below the <b>Focus</b> heading...

R

<i>"Having what you consider to be foreknowledge of how and who will bring in and sit atop the heirarchy of the NWO won't do you very much good in a nuclear blitz or a huge outbreak of SP or the plague."</i>

Jesse...

.....I was on the fly earlier; kinda busy... I dismiss the nuke picture, for many reasons, but I believe we very well may see smallpox; trouble is, it will be introduced through vaccine... I wish more of us understood the profoundly evil nature of those that want nothing more than the destruction of Christianity; we are admonished to "come out of her and suffer not her plagues"... sounds like an option; further, for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened, lest no flesh be saved"... I am of the opinion, that when that consuming fire comes, be it by man's hand as directed by YHVH or otherwise, it will occur simultaneously to the "change in the twinkling of an eye"... it will remove the tares, but His souls won't even realize what happened right away... then shall every remaining knee bow, (as opposed to "head")...

.....Wanted to add; when I referred to Christianity above as the target of destruction, I should have added that this includes the Christian west, whether you, (all of you), as an individual, have realized that you are said Christian or not... figure that one...

Would you survive a nuclear blast?

Click the PBS "Blast Mapper" link below to find out.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/bomb/sfeature/mapablast.html

MAKE YOUR DECISION.....UP OR DOWN ?

MAKE YOUR DECISION.....UP OR DOWN ?
Great posts here and also good to see minds at least discussing and searching for the Truth. I Think what's being missed among allot of good info. being displayed here is, We are at the Door. What you "want " inside your heart now is of the most importance. Can you walk through TRULY giving up all material attachments and needs to control? If not You can continue in this line of Births and follow the soon to be banished "ENTITY" and suffer the same pains and sorrows or indeed ripen and be reaped.
Bush released the Energy documents with just a few pages missing (10,000) while what was received had most important passages blacked out. Enron turned over it's documents with almost no paperwork but did include used pizza boxes and other Trash......can you believe this.....they would only act in this manner if they knew they are in no way ever going to be held accountable because the system that would go after them is soon to be destroyed. In light of the MENA report it's subsequent repression by executive order and followed directly by a subpoena to be enforced on Gee let me see sept. 11th. OK so this report is rumored to reveal much of the "gig" implicating the reality we live in. Republican.......Democrat and orany of the illusions created by puppeteers who are intent of dispensing Anglo Faciast control of the world it's roots in absolute darkness and insanity. So if they are willing to do what they did on 9/11 to cover their asses don't be fooled in what they are ready to do VERY soon . By the way most all of the evidence that would be needed for prosecution and proof of it's contents for MENA was where? oh my yes WTC>>>>> They need a Huge distraction quickly because allot of info in escaping to early and if this keeps growing their plan will become much more difficult. You can count on attack very soon........either followed or preceded by a very nasty "forced" natural disaster such as an earthquake.
In finishing it really matters not about who why when . Stop seriously for a moment and think this........people I am not kidding it's over. It's done forget about...retirement..........next year....your mortgage your SUV payment...he he . Life like you live it right now is going to end soon(six months) . "They" have the technology they have been in expectation off for thousands of years and no longer need any of us. "They" like us answer to a higher level system of Justice as God's creation is very large and very complex. The change is to come (not theirs but God's) and they are in denial ,panic and outright insanity in what to do. You are witnessing it in their earthly minions who are clueless to the fact they are about to be destroyed; instead they really think this is going to work. I think "they" will have a very brief rule followed by a literally earth shattering event which will fulfill what you and I have been living over and over to get. The important thing I my humble opinion right now is sitting down and finding out with humility and total honesty ....................which way to you want to go?
Peace
Storm


p.s "they"........= let's just say not HUMAN

As some would say, "GeT RighT or GeT LefT."

As for me and my house....

egads! Cyberspaceorbit!

I love Kent

But, one has to wonder if were not feeding a frenzy, eh? Chasing our tails and perpetrating web rumors...

Of course, the factual material posted within this thread makes that improbable. Nope. Red Mercury does exist. The dogs of war have been unleashed. The Evil Axis does exist. The covert proliferation of WMD technology by capable states such as Russia and China to terrorists and M.E. and rogue nations does exist. And, a United States post 9/11 which must quash freedom in order to provide security (which happens during World War) does exist. A US post 9/11 that must contemplate it's own destruction by Muslim extremists or master manipulators does exist.

It's a different world and living in a comfort zone that existed prior to 9/11 is only possible for the thickest skulled individuals.

To those who still live in that comfort zone I say, get it through your thick skulls that those people who entered the WTC towers and the Pentagon on 9/11 and never made it out alive aren't coming back.

They're not going to Starbucks tomorrow. They're not going to celebrate Easter, or Passover, or anything else, ever again. They're families will cry, and dream of what might have been. They're son's and daughters, some of whom where born post 9/11, wont get to kiss their cheeks or feel their loving arms around them ever.

But, you still want to recline in your Easyboy and be comfy.

After all, we haven't suffered another attack. I hope we never do. But, will it take another attack to crack your thick skull and make you ponder the destruction of yourself and your family at the hands of an enemy who seeks to destroy everything that made this country a place where hope for generations past, present and future has found a home?

Yes, we have our faults. Yes, as a nation we aren't without sin.

But, to suggest that we invite our own destruction and therefore we should sit back and enjoy the ride of the next holocost is simply beyond my comprehension.

So, I say, have a nice day. I hope you're right. I'm prepared and hopeful that I'm totally wrong.

Are you prepared to be wrong?

Mike

Thank you Patrick for amplifying your previous response to me.

FWIW, I would no more take a vaccine these days than I would consent to voluntarily submit my thumbprint, fingerprint, iris or any other part of my biological data for use by anyone other than the LORD our GOD! - Jesse.

BB said:

Dinky: Thanks for your input. Not being in the nuclear field myself, I find that Cohen's statements are the final word for me on the existence and nuclear use of Red Mercury.

Keep it coming R.

Click to expand...

Because it may relieve some of the probably pointless anxiety in those unable to understand such things as red mercury, I will explain my distrust of the red mercury story:

All this is based on my own personal knowledge of chemistry (which is really molecular orbital chemistry), and nuclear physics, (which is really nuclear chemistry).

To be referred to later are these extractions from the thread posts:

As to the critical description of red mercury fusion bombs:

"These are softball-sized two-megaton fusion bombs triggered by an irradiated and compressed compound of mercury antimony oxide."

As to where the size of baseball originated it apparently came from Cohen's brag:

"The material means a neutron bomb can be built "the size of a baseball" but able to kill everyone within several square blocks."

As to how red mercury it stores energy:

"According to Spin magazine, it is not exactly an explosive but goes through a chemical transformation that releases MUCH more power (energy/time) than high explosives. It was discovered in Russia and is currently being produced there."


Notice in the second reference above Cohen is speaking of a neutron bomb, not a fusion bomb, and he says it can only kill within a several block distance. A block is about a tenth of a mile in most cities. He speculates one could be built the size of a baseball. The baseball size seems to have been extended by other less informed persons into all other discussions of red mercury or neutron bombs size without basis for doing that.

The spin magazine thing above says it is a chemical transformation, meaning it involves orbital chemistry, not nuclear chemistry. It is not able to describe that transformation, meaning it probably does not exist, because chemical transformations are very well known and predictable to a high degree with chemical software programs.

As for red mercury being currently produced in Russia, I know of no evidence it is being used in anything, if produced. Their weapons do not show evidence of such use. Also a magazine would not likely be privy to such knowledge if it were true.

Our own agencies would highly likely have some indication such a weapon existed, and all such agencies in the world would surely be onto it. Therefore, our military would be demanding major bucks to start up programs to copy its use. Nothing heard about anything like that yet. Major money tends to cause much cackling in congress, especially in an election year.

Secrets be damned men, votes are at risk.

Normal chemistry involves alterations in the electrons orbiting the nucleus.

Nuclear chemistry involves alterations in the nucleus' internal bonding energies, (maybe orbital also, on a much smaller and more violent scale, who knows, but it's not referred to as orbital yet. It just IS).

Normal chemistry cannot interfere with nuclear bonding, and orbital energy exchanges are rather limited, as energy releases go.

Nuclear chemistry can interfere with all things, and those energy exchanges are enormously larger than orbital exchanges.

To get a grip on the red mercury story,...

First realize that both USSR and USA (and many other nations) have active misinformation programs which release false stories about "discoveries" and advances in military technology.

These are intended to put out stories that are borderline to truth, so they will consume much effort of other nation's spying activity trying to confirm them. The things claimed are always significant advances which will surely trigger great interest in the adversary. This misinformation makes true secrets harder to seek out.

Secondly, if this story were true it would represent a major advance in weapons technology. Therefore it would be classified above top secret with highly compartmentalized need to know, to even learn it exists at all.

It also would never be referred to by a name that could be connected to its true self. Thus "red mercury" would never be used in referring to the actual material if it contained any metal, let alone mercury. A name like gravy might be chosen, totally unrelated to the real name.

Thirdly, if anyone broke the secrecy rules they would instantly be picked up and not heard from again. They would be held in close confinement so they could not again say anything secret, and tried and convicted and held in nearly solitary confinement to prevent any further release of dangerous information.

Fourth, this information states in some detail that it involves a mixture of mercury oxide, (a common red powder formerly used as paint pigments) and antimony oxide, a common white chemical powder with no remarkable uses.

It claims to be a mixture of them. Mixing chemicals without reacting them.

Two metal oxides will not chemically react with each other to any significant degree, unless dissolved in a solvent, and then they will only create an insignificant exchange of ions if any, but no significant energy would be released. Thus such a mixture has no magical powers or expectations.

It mentions the mixture is compressed. Compressing such a mixture would add very little energy to it. Compressing is only useful on highly unstable radioactive elements which are already decomposing at a fast rate compared to natural radioactive elements, and need just a little push to get them into a chain reaction. Compressing them so they are more compact can accomplish that.

The compression I am referring to is beyond imagination of lay persons. It amounts to squeezing a Steel Ball from say 3 inches diameter down to 2 inches diameter or some such figures.

To get some such squeezing in the first atom bomb, a lump of Uranium made into a bullet was put into a rather large cannon, and shot into another lump so the impact could squeeze it enough to get a pukey explosion compared to present technology.

Therefore saying it is compressed adds nothing meaningful to the story, but gives it some faint link to the compression needed in real nuclear weapons. Enough of a link to fool novices.

It claims the mixture is irradiated. It does not say with what. Could be light, x-rays, gamma rays, electrons, positrons, neutrons, or strange particles, etc. Anyone having a nuclear power reactor could thus irradiate such a mixture, if doing that would accomplish anything. That also would attract the attention of novices, for it was do-able by many of them, if only they could get the magic ingredient.

What would irradiation actually do to a mixture of metallic oxides?

Well, if intense it could knock some electrons out of orbit and into other orbits. If so they would rather promptly fall back to where they belong when the radiation was stopped, and they would emit probably light to get rid of the modest energy they absorbed.

The amount of energy that can be gotten from orbital mechanics is fairly limited to levels in the range of light (the kind you see with eyes) frequency radiations.

Such irradiation could force a chemical bonding between the mixed oxides. That is not likely because they have no affinity to form any stable compound, and anything formed would be fleeting at best, and not likely be a new compound containing new and great powers. It would be quite unstable or it would appear in natural deposits also. The energy possibly stored would be chemical and rather small as things go.

The irradiation could penetrate the nucleus and stir up things there.
That could create an isotope of the metals. If so the isotope metal would be unstable and as it decayed back to its stable state it would release as radiation roughly the same level of energy it had absorbed. The amount of energy that it could absorb would be again fairly limited, as nuclear explosions go.

If the irradiation was of just the right type, it might split a nucleus here and there and cause fission (splitting) but again that is highly unlikely.

Even if it did so, the energy released would be small because not many nuclei would split, and energy would be released instantly and not stored in the split parts. The split parts would possess less energy than did the whole, because it released some in splitting, so there would not be stored in the irradiated metal any gain in energy that could be used in some later explosive transformation.

Then there is a great clue in the misinformation itself. It says that the material possesses its enhanced energy by nature of being in an altered mechanical (chemical orbital) state which can release more energy than high explosives. Thus it is telling us it is still a non nuclear energy source which limits it to being chemical energy same as explosives possess.

High explosives release stored (chemical bonding) energy mostly ending up in mechanical form, and have been extensively researched using all known high energy bonds to select those able to release the most the fastest.

No such high energy explosives depend on mixed metallic oxides. In fact metallic oxides are mostly useless as energy releasers, although some perform in relatively slow burning thermit (welding) mixtures, but in even firecrackers, oxides are too weak, and chlorates, per chlorates, and nitrates are used, not oxides.

Oxides are generally known to be duds as explosives go. After all, an oxide is generally something that has already burned once and the oxide is the ash left after a lot of heat energy was liberated. Not much left in most metal oxides.

The good explosives have carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen all bonded together into a single molecule, where they can get to each other to form other things very quickly if disturbed properly.

Thus they contain both fuel and oxygen very close together, "with their spring wound tight," so to speak, and just itching to react in other ways to release a lot of energy.

When that compound's temperature is raised high enough (causing violent mechanical vibration of the molecule) to rupture the first bond, the energy it releases raises the temperature much higher and lots of bonds storing energy are released, and the broken parts recombine into other compounds releasing further energy, usually doing all that in millionths of a second, and we have an explosion as the very hot gasses created expand.

That occurs instantly, thus the usefulness as explosives.

The clue in the spin reference above" it is not exactly an explosive but goes through a chemical transformation that releases MUCH more power (energy/time) than high explosives" is it says in other words that this is an orbital bonding type of energy, which gives out more energy than normally encountered in such chemistry.

However orbital energy is far too limited to cause nuclear disturbances. Therefore this compound apparently has magical qualities.

The chemical explosives used in nuclear bombs are there to squeeze together a wad of nuclear unstable nuclei in atoms which are itching to rearrange to a lower stored energy state.

By squeezing them together, the radiation they are always emitting gradually, is confined more intimately with other atoms, and less of it escapes without hitting another nucleus. When enough of them hit other squeezed closer nuclei, a chain reaction can form. That instantly causes the whole quantity to re-assemble into other entirely different elements with a very large release of energy. VERY large!

Thus a few pounds of nuclear bombs can release the same energy as millions of tons of our best high explosives.

High explosives are seldom assembled in quantities of more than a couple tons when themselves used in bombs, so the difference is between high explosive bombs and nuclear bombs if very large.

Like the difference between an elderly person getting $500 a month SSI and another dude getting 230 million dollars an hour, constantly. As I said BIG difference.

All the above things strongly suggest to those familiar with bombs and chemistry, that red mercury is a hoax.

Also all cases I am aware of where it was claimed to be possessed turned out to be hoaxes.

In my opinion the only ones falling for the story so far that would be important to our worries, are very rich and very ignorant persons wanting to get an instant "one-up" on the existing nuclear powers.

It appears to me to be a con artist scam to dupe some rich Arabs, or other wannabe powers, out of some really serious loot. After all if it don't work then you did it wrong, and besides whatcha gonna do about it? Con man's dream.

Also if such a thing existed there would be evidence of it in new weapons. Nothing noticed there, as mentioned in my earlier comments.

Such a weapon would be too good not to use.

Thus because the chemistry and physics of the thing discourages believing it, and the lack of any confirmation in new weapons, and the source of claims that it exists, and the unlikely leak that such a thing existed if it really did, and the fact Cohen still exists apparently, all force my opinion is that it is a hoax. Someone like Cohen would be a good source to "leak" disinformation.

Apparently most persons able to understand the details involved also feel that way.

It gets placed in my "too wild to be likely" category of claimed discoveries, along with the water burning car engine, or the hundred mile per gallon carburetor (on a 2 ton auto to boot) type stories.

However those wanting to tell each other ghost stories, to get shivers up the spine, are welcome to do so. It is rather cruel to stressed out forum readers trying to learn something however.

There are other more rewarding dangers to fret over IMO.

But then boredom of waiting for calamity to arrive does cause fiction to be generated in conversations and on forums, to stir up some activity, and let fly with all the what if's one can conjure up.

Then too, if planet x dares come near here we can get our best pitcher to lob a few red mercury baseballs at it and show it what's what.

I'd even get out my "very expensive per printed picture digital camera" for that.

Frankly my own emotions are stirred up enough just with the unusual and dangerous political activities now going on to spare time about new forms of nuclear weapons. The ones we know we got are more than a thousand times adequate to do all that can be done.

My worry is that present activities track remarkably close to those that allowed the world to slip over the edge of similar mutual pissing off deeds in the 19 teens, and land straight into WWI.

Bush's aggression in deliberate flaunting the fragile international laws still in place, after our Korea, and Vietnam "police actions", which try to keep civility among sovereigns, also looks fairly similar to how Hitler, Mussolini, and Japan's activities in the late 1930's got everyone into WWII.

Having been struck by that lightning known as WWII, and having read about WWI, I have a natural sensitivity in seeing similar black clouds rolling in again.

"Smell the wind, she's about to raise a blow".

Knowing that lesson number 3 usually contains severe levels of disaster in most situations which call for repeated lessons,...

and rather fully understanding that such levels of disaster will be rather easily achieved if lesson 3 occurs,...

I naturally am apprehensive about current nonsense worldwide.

When really apprehensive, I tend to make a lot of noise.

Only rarely does that do any good, but then what the hell, noise is cheap, and making it also relieves the boredom of waiting for calamity to arrive.

To each his choice of how to relieve the boredom...

But it ought not sorely stress out others who don't deserve it...that's not nice.

Dinky - VERY well done. Bravo!

Now; would you be so kind as to debunk a lot of the other stuff on the Bearden site. It's way beyond my ability to do it ... though instinctively I think it's BS.

Dinky,

Appreciate you taking the time for your post. Very informative indeed.

-TECH32-

Dinky, my appreciation is yours also!

Insofaras red mercury, other materials I found but did not post indicated that there was a very high dollar smuggling trade going on from the late 1980's through roughly 1995 or so.
Why did the trade tail down? One prime reason appeared to be that there got to be more copy and intel people running stings than actual potential buyers. That implication was pretty clear. And that implication has of course nothing to do with whether or not red mercury exists nor whether its peoperties or capabilities are as that Nyquist piece purported.

I am not yet -- not quite yet -- to the point of concluding that there is <i>nothing at all</i> to red mercury. One of the reasons goes back to that South Africa (SADF) use of the material. I am also reminded that during that time the clandestine SA forces were doing a whole lot of business with Mossad. And no, I saw nothing indicating that the Mossad was seeling SA red mercury. I did see quite a string of assassinations in and beyond SA, all centered on covering up one large red mercury deal.

There are two questions to answer: one is about red mercury, and the other is about whether a device can exist which does not use the highly enriched fissionable materials which fission devices, boosted fission devices, or fusion devices all are constructed around.
So far, I have not found a hint that such devices which are not constructed around, for example, plutonium, exist.

Shifting topics to Bearden and to the universe of uses of those branches of high energy physics (if that's the correct term)...

Having done some small amount of reading on those topics, including significant quite independent of Bearden, I have concluded that there darn sure is something to those technologies.
One such book is <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962335606/102-7475199-3696115">Tapping The Zero Point Energy</a> (Amazon link). That author and experimenter describes experiments and presentations going back several decades which he has done, which explore zero point energy -- which can be considered one aspect of the scalar electromagnetics which is one of Bearden's fields.

Bottom line is that I would not care to bet one new penny upon that those scientific areas are not valid, nor upon that those technological accomplishments which include large-area weather modification, various weapons, and various bio healing capabilities, are false.

R

mike wrote -

But, you still want to recline in your Easyboy and be comfy.

After all, we haven't suffered another attack. I hope we never do. But, will it take another attack to crack your thick skull and make you ponder the destruction of yourself and your family at the hands of an enemy who seeks to destroy everything that made this country a place where hope for generations past, present and future has found a home?

Yes, we have our faults. Yes, as a nation we aren't without sin.

But, to suggest that we invite our own destruction and therefore we should sit back and enjoy the ride of the next holocost is simply beyond my comprehension.

So, I say, have a nice day. I hope you're right. I'm prepared and hopeful that I'm totally wrong.

Are you prepared to be wrong?

you must be in your extra strength, new and improved, heavy duty alert outfit today, mike.

do you think a band of muslim terrorists have the capability to destroy the USA?

they can't - unless they have sponsorship with a large power who gives them access to 'the button'. of course, that would make today like any other day - somebody ready with the button.

what i see here is panic in some. panic clouds rational thinking. the govt has been happy to supply additional doses from time to time. not sure why, as their predictions are always wrong and if we are ever hit again, it will be of the blindside nature, just like 911 (or so i've been told).

. . . destruction of yourself and your family at the hands of an enemy who seeks to destroy everything that made this country a place where hope for generations past, present and future has found a home . . .

says who? just because your feelers tell this to you doesn't make it so. if you'd like to see the continuance of this nation you can start by not believing the lies that are being spread from DC. what they need is your cooperation in order to spread war and ill-will throughout the world.

safety and security are nice to have, mike, but they are not the foundation of the nation.

so what made this country great?

how about freedom of speech? how are we doing lately? lessee campaign finance reform signed by the prez after stating before the election he would not sign such a bill with the points contained in it. goodbye political speech. what about "if you aren't with us you are for the terrorists?" what about daschle questioning the direction of the war (it IS the responsibility of congress to provide some balance in the political process, isn't it?) and to be met by, "he is aiding and abetting the enemy?"

how about our strong belief in national sovereignty? too bad the borders leak like a sieve and our system encourages illegal immigration. what kind of respect did we show for the national sovereignty of afghanistan when we decided to bomb them into rubble without a declaration of war?

gun control, airport "security", Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc. lies, lies, lies, but this time, you are getting the truth, huh? you are in danger? OK, whatever.

our world wide effort to eradicate terrorism from the planet will not bring us any closer to the safety and security you so enjoy and deserve. the program is without merit and will surely push us towards increased insecurity.

the world is right to hate and fear us because we don't live up to our own ideals. we abandon our responsibilities for the sake of political expediency. all that AND we have nuclear weapons.

the great nation is gone. all that's left is a need for safety and security.

timbo said:

I never told you to shut up and not post. Take a lot more than lil ol me to do that.

Click to expand...

"BWD I know what you are talking about but I dont know why you keep talking about it."



subtle, yet clear.

.....Thanks, dave...

you must be in your extra strength, new and improved, heavy duty alert outfit today, mike.

roflmao

yep. and I'm the local retailer for the suit in case anyone is interested

Dave, I hear ya bud. I really do. I'm equally aware of the state of our nation.

But, it doesn't matter. Because, it boils down to something much more simple than borders, or politicians and politics, or even stolen freedoms. It boils down to basic survival.

the great nation is gone. all that's left is a need for safety and security.

Yes. Perhaps I'm not being 100% clear to this point.

I'm not going to sit back and rely on my government to provide for the security of my family. THAT is MY responsibility. And, it's the responsibility of ALL citizens of this country who seek safety and security to rise up and take measures to ensure the safety and security of their own families. Even if that means that the fight for safety and security must be taken to the shores or lands of our enemy.

safety and security are nice to have, mike, but they are not the foundation of the nation.

Absolutely. If that were true then we wouldn't be in the trouble we find ourselves in today. Case in point; Russia, China, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, etc.

If they put forth 1/10th the kinds of freedoms that YOU take for granted that DO still exist here in the US then their nations would crumble under revolution.

Dave, sometimes I think you're friggin' twisted bud but I love ya because I know exactly why you're pissed off about what has happened to this country. I'm pissed too.

But, it's OUR nation. You talk the talk so walk the walk and I'll be there with you. But first, we've got to make sure we have country and the freedoms we need to remake it.

"Do you think a band of muslim terrorists have the capability to destroy the USA? "

Are you so arrogant as to think they cannot? Study the current Islamic movement around the globe and you'll find that it's reaching out like a cancer with tremendous momentum. Where is it written that this country will exist forever?

Regardless, muslim extremists don't have to "destroy the USA" in order to motivate me.

All the muslim extremists have to do is threaten my life, the lives of my family and my loved ones, my friends, my neighbors, my countrymen and women, to motivate me. And, after 9/11, I feel both threatened AND motivated.

Again, I hope you're right. I want to be wrong. I'll take being proven a fool anyday over my fears of being proven correct and dead on. Because, chances are, a lot of people I know and love may be just that...dead.

Dave, my family lived behind enemy lines when their country was over run by the enemy. After 9/11, it's clear that the enemy isn't just overseas...the enemy lives WITHIN our own borders.

In essence Dave, the "invasion" has already begun and an attack like 9/11 isn't even necessary. Cut the grid, blow a nuclear reactor or two, topple another building...classic guerilla warfare and a war of attrition. It wont happen in a day but the attack on 9/11 took a lot longer than a day to prepare.

My father fought a guerilla war at the age of 13-14 and helped in his small part to destroy the Japanese empire and rid the Philippines of their occupied force. But, he was forced to watch as family members and friends lost their heads on their front porches. HE was motivated.

Can that happen here? Do you want to wait and find out?

Mike

Thanks for the appreciation. Makes the time spend worth doing again sometime.

As for Redeye's comments, I cannot say it does not exist either. I just cannot find anything to hand a theory on which supports it.

As for zero point energy, consider that the aliens come her from distances which would take us a lifetime to travel using even nuclear rocket engines, which we haven't perfected yet for manned space travel.

Calculate the fuel to do that and it reaches un-carryable amounts. They are using something that they get along the way. That would be harnesing the energy that saturates all space. We just ain't figured out how to do it yet. We got lots of hints but that's about all.

They also appear NOT to be conservative on energy although they are a helluva long way from home, but waste it like we do water, meaning it must be very cheap if not free.

Ball lightning for example does things we cannot comprehend under our current state of knowledge.

A friend used to fly ASW plane patrols in the burmuda triangle. He said often a glowing ball would penetrate their metal hull, and wander around down through the plane and exit, or sometime go out with a loud pop.

The captain would calmly tell any newcomers not to touch it and to get out of its way. The casual response from practical experience, because he knew they contain a lot of energy.

Where is it from. Where does it go to. Nobody knows on Earth that's talking.

One ball traveled along phone wires went down a gutter into a rain barrel overflowing with water. Eye witnesses said it made the barrel of cold water boil. That's a bunch of energy, for a little ball about big as a canaloupe, with nothing but glowing air in it.

So I just say about red mercury, its an iffy subject. However it is not really all that important to us because the big clunky nukes all over the world will do anything a red mercury one is claimed to be able to do. I am not even sure having red mercury weapons would change much if the big ones get used.

Gotta ask myself would it really make any difference in my attitude if a meagaton of nuclear whack hit me in the butt, whether it came from a little package or a big one? Don't see a real worrisome difference there. Sure would like to have a little one myself though. That would really discourage some of the crap the government is laying on people now, about plant this don't plant that, and that wet spot over there is not yourn anymore its ourn. You can't disturb it by running a tractor over it neither. Well you get the point.

Lots of things are being dredged up now in the game of pin a tail on Saddam, so we can go pull it off. I suspect that's what all the red mercury talk is about now.

I recall the Reconsceuto (terrible spelling) guy who became expendable to the government and now lives in federal prison, [where he probably faces execution if he doesn't say what they tell him], also spoke of it, and spoke of a phase bomb that he claimed was used on Oklahoma city.


That phase bomb turns out to a gas explosion, similar to those that clear away a home now and then when a leak gets lit. There are pictures on the web somewhere showing navy tests of an air to ground test of one. A ton of gasoline [or more volatile stuff] blasted out a few hundred feet above a target, vaporizes, settles to the ground and mixes with 15 tons of air, (same ratio as it does in your auto carburetor) to cause the equivalent of about a 4 ton explosion of low strength dynamite.

That raises much hell locally, and does cause a large pressure then vacuum waves on those below as the push makes the air leave in a hurry, then the gas that pushed it cools and condenses mostly to water, and leaves an instant vacuum.

That bothers hell out of any air inside the body, and does a lot of damage.

Air, when it is made to move has inertia like water, only less. It can't reverse instantly. It has lots of weight. 100 cu ft weights 8 lbs. Thats a chunk a tad less than a 5x5x5 ft. van full. Touch that off and each wall of it can hold about a 6th of its 8 lbs, and have a force on it of 9000 lbs pushing a bit over a pound of air. It starts out at an accelleration of about 9000 g's, so it does not tarry. Sure it slows within a few yards because it soon is pushing a wad has piled up in front of it which weighs hundreds of pounds, but it still gets up to sassy speeds.


Get a 300 ft by 300 ft by about 100 ft high wad of it leaving an airforce phase bomb, at hundreds of mph, and it can do impressive things. That's way past a force 5 hurricane and nearly up to tornado velocities.

The pressure waves of larger phase bombs last several seconds so there is time for those pressures to really sink in and hurt like hell or worse. They have time to go down down tunnels and such.

They are cheap too.

The air's free, Gas is cheap, and its on site in many buildings via a handy gas pipeline. Really a dandy way for terrorists to remove buildings. But then they know all about that. It's the people who live in those buildings who haven't thought of it yet.

A janitor could get the time alone to get a few rooms of the the first floor loaded with the proper amount, and touch it off. That would sure remove all the walls of that floor.

Building walls withstand 1 or 2psi. Bunker walls 5 psi. Nothing much but missile silos stands the 30 psi which air/gas at 15 psi atmospheric pressure exerts when lit, upon things in its way.

Doing that to the first floor would also upset the hell out of the owner even if it was a steel beam building and nothing much else came down.

But now I'm into war stories, good for relieving boredom.

But my point on Reconxxx... is that although he is reported by those close to him to be one sharp cookie technically, he is now in the belly of the dragon, and his words may not be his own. Cohen could have been "reached" too. Hard to know who to trust the way things are.

Dinky, I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your insight as well!

I'm just glad your on our side

Mike

Thanks Dave, no one ever accused me of being subtle.

I noticed it shut you right up. My subtle hints that is.

Hi Dinky: First of all, you have got to change your handle man. You know what I mean? It throws people off.

Thanks for the great contribution to this thread. RM is at the core of Nyquist's article. I'm going to email him and ask him how sure he is it exists to see what else he can give us. I think Redeye's search is not without merit. There is something there.

I leave room for the disinformation theory. But how far do we take it? At that point, no one is believable. No doubt, like you say, plenty of disinformation is strategically used. We certainly don't know what secrets our military or Russia's military are playing with.

What we do know are that there are a lot of bad weapons in the world and people insane enough to use them. Weaponized smallpox is enough for me.

Where we part ways is that I refuse to believe that Bush is the problem like you do. I believe he finally 'gets it' on what Russia is really planning and he's trying to catch up and create the nuclear/weapon/military balance that has created deterrence and our generation of prosperity. I didn't see Bush talking like he is now before 9-11. He was talking nuclear bomb reductions and having Putin to the ranch. I believe the intell since 9-11 has uncovered a lot and is the motivation for Bush's actions and words in regards to Russia and Iraq as Nyquist's article brilliantly pointed out.

Possible news on the impending attack on Iraq

From today's DEBKA (bottom left) http://www.debka.com/
=================================================
Washington Postpones Iraq Offensive
23 March: In the light of the
mounting opposition to the
Iraqi operation US Vice
President Richard Cheney
encountered in his 11-nation
Middle East-Gulf, the White
House is reported by
DEBKA-Net-Weekly's
military, intelligence and
political sources to have fitted
new goals around the Iraqi
scenario, including also solutions to the acute
Palestinian-Israeli conflict, the long-festering Kurdish national issue and the Ethiopian-Somali border conflict all primary engines of terror.
This expanded geopolitical-***-military agenda calls for carefully synchronized multiple military strikes on several fronts. The immediate consequence of the revised plan of action is a six-to-eight week delay in the US military offensive against Baghdad from early
April to the second half of May or early June.
The postponement was decided during Cheney’s
penultimate Middle East stop in Jerusalem on March 18-19, before he set off for Ankara. While the Palestinian issue appeared to dominate the visit, in reality most of the vice president’s 48-hour stay was taken up by highly confidential conferences between him and President George W. Bush, defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld, secretary of state Colin Powell, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and CIA
director George Tenet.
According to DEBKA-Net-Weekly's sources,
Cheney's foremost argument for the postponement
was that broadening the campaign's objectives to solve chronic conflicts that keep the region
permanently on the boil, could rally its European and Middle East opponents round to supporting the strike against Saddam. The necessary delay could be used profitably to win more allied support.
But with or without such support, the Bush team is determined to press ahead with its multi-pronged program for removing Saddam and eradicating terror clusters embedded in the Middle East and the Horn of Africa.
In Washington's sights are the Hizballah (harbored in Lebanon with tacit Syrian sanction) the new al-Qaeda bases established in south Lebanon (and tolerated by the Beirut government); the clandestine al Qaeda presence in the Gulf region, including Yemen (which collaborates with US but also secretly leaves the Islamic extremists be); Saudi Arabia (which secretly harbors al Qaeda partisans and openly refuses to collaborate with the US counter-terror drive); Abu Dhabi (a sanctuary for the lawless of every stripe); the al Qaeda cells harbored in Somalia and Sudan (notwithstanding Khartoum's gesture of handing over an activist this week).
As for Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, he is deemed a write-off. Washington will make sure he is removed from the Palestinian Authority and replaced with an acceptable Palestinian leader or leaders. The United States, the vice president explained, intended casting the kingdom of Jordan and its army in the role of security patron over the West Bank province of the Palestinian state-to-be.

Good post BWD

Good post BWD: "gun control, airport "security", Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc. lies, lies, lies, but this time, you are getting the truth, huh? you are in danger? OK, whatever."

The list is certainly long, but you left out a few of my favourites: The 1965 Immigration Act (Thank you liers Gerald Ford, Ted Kennedy, and Hubert Humphrey), Vince Foster, TWA 800. And now we have W. Bush who has done a 180 on many of his campaign promises. Not that I believed him before the election.

I dont trust the Russians, PRC, or Muslims, but I dont trust the G either. BR

Nuclear Detonations "The Facts"

Hi Fellow Travelers,
In response to questions about the effects of Nuclear Detonations. The following is from descriptions and tables from "Life After Doomsday" by Bruce D. Clayton Phd 1980 edition.
And I quote,
"Nuclear weapons can be detonated in all kinds of circumstances. They can be exploded in the air , over a target, on the surface of the ground, under the ground (in a mine), under water and at high altitudes. Each of these locations alters the effects produced by the blast and other phenomena, making the location of the bomb at the moment of detonation one of the important factors in predicting the problems it will cause for retreaters. We will be concerned with surface bursts (the small suitcase or ball size), air bursts, and high altitude bursts.


Description of Air and Surface Bursts
When a nuclear weapon is exploded, the incredible amount of energy released instantaneously heats a large volume of air to a temperature of 10's of millions of degrees. The white hot air radiates heat intensely and gives off so much light that a 1 megaton fireball looks brighter than the sun even when viewed from a distance of 50 miles. The flash in the sky from a relatively small 100 kiloton burst is visible for as much as 400 miles away at night.
At the instant of detonation the fireball of a 1 megaton bomb is about 400 feet in diameter. It then begins to expand rapidly until, after 10 seconds it is 5700 feet across. Like a hot air balloon, the fireball is bouyed up in the air at the rate of 300 feet per second. After about a minute, the fireball has risen to 25,000 feet and has cooled to the point that it is no longer giving off any light.
As the cloud of superheated gas rises, it experiences a certain amount of drag from the surrounding air. This slows down the outer edges of the cloud, allowing the inner part to rise a little faster than the outer. The total effect is the formation of what amounts to a smoke ring as the lagging outer rim of the cloud is sucked into the space left by the rising center section. This rolling smoke ring is the fabled "mushroom" which sits on top of the "stem" formed by a column of windblown smoke and dirt carried up behind the rising fireball. "

Shock Wave Effects
"Acting on the principle that retreaters aren't as interested in how the shock wave forms as they are in what happens to the surrounding countryside, I am going to skip the technical details of wave front formations and stick to the basic idea that a nuclear detonation produces a powerful shock wave in the air. this shockwave moves out in all directions from the fireball at a speed faster than sound. What are the pertinent details a retreater needs to understand about this effect?
Perhaps the most difficult thing to grasp about the blast wave is that it is actually composed of two effects which happen at once. The first is called overpressure, and consists of a dramatic increase in air pressure above the normal level. This increase in air pressure tends to crush hollow objects (like houses or cars), producing an effect something like squeezing a beer can in your fist. The second effect is dynamic pressure, which produces a very strong wind blowing outward from the center of the explosion. This wind tends to knock things down, like slapping a beer can and sending it flying across the room. Together, the overpressure and the dynamic pressure are the effects which loosely are referred to as the blast wave."
Dr. Clayton then goes on refering to table 3 and 4 for the Shockwave effects on various materials at various distances with a 1 and 20 megaton blast (table 3). Table 4 is the radius of thermal effects. I have scanned these in jpg forms rather than posting them in this message as they are quite long.
Table 3 is attached to this message I will attach table 4 to the next message.
Pete

Nuclear Detonations "The Facts" Table 4

Ok here is table 4, an aside comment.
After studing this entire book almost 20 years ago I created the basic survival gear, the problem however is not being near a detonation, or its fallout in order to survive. I decided not to build a bomb shelter, I live to close to Chicago presently, 40 miles, so there is no chance to survive any type of large blast.
My hope is in Jesus Christ, I really don't want to have to survive a major conflagration, As written in Matthew 24:22
"except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved, but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened."
pete

Hi pjespirit and welcome

As a fellow hoosier I appreciate your post. Have printed out both tables. Have you ever thought of moving farther away? I'm about 60 miles to the east of you.

I received this email from Nyquist regarding why he believes red mercury exists.

Jeff Nyquist said:

Lt. Vreeland is a man whose case is classified by the U.S. government. The Russian mafia put a bullet in him and left him for dead. He knows things that he couldn't know unless he were somebody important. He says that the Russian bomb technology is called "red mercury 20/20." Sam Cohen is one of the world's leading experts in nuclear weapons design, and Sam Cohen says he is CONVINCED the Russians have red mercury devices that work. If people think red mercury is impossible there is not much I can do to change their minds if they're not willing to consider Cohen's arguments or Vreeland's testimony. I can only report what my sources say and people will have to decide for themselves. I can't prove red mercury is real, but I suspect that it signifies something that amounts to the same thing if it isn't.

Click to expand...

I believe Cohen is not a flunky for the establishment spreading disinformation and IS telling the truth. That and the Vreeland story, combined with the other evidence on this thread makes me believe there are mini nukes of such a small size that they can be easily smuggled into the U.S.

I believe Cohen is not a flunky for the establishment spreading disinformation and IS telling the truth. That and the Vreeland story, combined with the other evidence on this thread makes me believe there are mini nukes of such a small size that they can be easily smuggled into the U.S.

Click to expand...

Ah, a declaration of faith. I'll buy that for a dollar!

Seriously, much food for thought in this thread. Thanks for offering it up!

as to if Red Mercury exists...

I did a lexis-nexis search and found the following to be used under fair use and research and discussion purposes.

sorry, can't put up the lexis-nexis link as you won't be able to get it.

Copyright 1994 Caledonian Newspapers Ltd.
The Herald (Glasgow)


April 13, 1994

SECTION: Pg. 7

LENGTH: 279 words

HEADLINE: Russia may have mini neutron warhead

BODY:


DISTURBING new evidence that Russia may have developed a miniature nuclear bomb that could create a worldwide terrorist nightmare will be unveiled in a TV programme this evening.

Claims that the Russians have developed a compound called Red Mercury, with 300 times the explosive power of TNT, are widespread. Western intelligence agencies, including the CIA, have insisted the substance is a hoax.

However, Channel 4's Dispatches programme tonight interviews a number of Russian scientists who maintain the substance exists.

They emphasise it has been used to create not only a smaller and more potent nuclear warhead but a tiny neutron bomb, which emits huge amounts of radiation that kills all life but leaves buildings intact.

The scientists claim a neutron bomb the size of a coffee mug has been produced, which could kill every living thing within a 600-yard radius.

Dr Sam Cohen, inventor of the American neutron bomb, is convinced by the claims and says he has never been more frightened.

"If a terrorist had one of these devices he could plant it a few hundred yards from the Houses of Parliament. He could calmly walk away and detonate it when out of range."

He said the West had to deny the existence of Red Mercury, "or admit to the fact that the spread of nuclear weapons can no longer be contained".

Russia's ultra-nationalist leader, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, has threatened on several occasions to unleash a secret weapon called the "Elipton", which is described as an airburst bomb of enormous power.

Few people in the West believe him but, if Red Mercury exists, his claims could prove to be frighteningly true.

LOAD-DATE: April 15, 1994


so back in 1994 it was being talked about and the Russian scientists say it exists.

Faith is built on evidence of things not seen and a substantiating of facts, when your eyes can't actually see it.

Sorry CeeBee my faith is not for sale.

The first is called overpressure, and consists of a dramatic increase in air pressure above the normal level. This increase in air pressure tends to crush hollow objects (like houses or cars),

Click to expand...

and sucks the air right out of your lungs....collapsing/crushing them.

Thank God we are only assigned one time to die.....
and I believe that there will be angels there to quickly take us out of the body. JMHPO.

"and a substantiating of facts"

Well, we're still waiting. So far a whole lot of claims are resting on the credibility of just two sources. One, Cohen, may be a plant or even a crank, despite his illustrious past. The other is an extremely mysterious figure. Anyone's personal, subjective feelings or judgement in this matter are inconsequential, no matter how much "faith" you may have in their testimony.

So pardon my ongoing skepticism. But I've also always been skeptical of statements by the government that foreign governments and terrorists haven't been able to smuggle nuclear weapons into our country, prepositioned and ready for mayhem.

Don't need no steenkin' red mercury anyway, like Dinky sez. Plenty good bang and plenty small size with known technology.

The only question is why bother with crashing airplanes into skyscrapers if you have a nuke? Are we just not ready yet for that level of escalation?

How soon now?

And what is holding back Iraq? They have been itchin' to wreak havoc on Israel for some time now. Soddamn Insane can turn his whole country into a virtual suicide bomber if he really wants to. And if he can slip a nuke to the Palestinians or Al-Qaeda, he doesn't even have to take the heat.

>>>Cohen, may be a plant or even a crank, despite his illustrious past.<<<

It boils down to this CeeBee. I believe what Cohen says because of his illustrious past. You do not BELIEVE Cohen because you BELIEVE he MAY BE a plant or a crank. Either position is based on faith. Since you have no proof, nilch, none that Cohen is a crank or a plant, I choose to believe the man....along with other 'evidences' on this thread.

Good points, pro and con, made by all.

Most telling is the point that RM or not - doesn't much matter when the thing goes off.

I have been contemplating Dinky's earlier, and most excellent post. Two points especially. One is the chemical worthlessness of mercury antimony oxide. The other being that such a breakthrough would never be known/referred to by anything that gave a hint as to what it actually was.

Soooo - possibility that red mercury does exist and does what it is touted to do. But has NOTHING to do with Hg or Sb or oxide.

Ultimately; if we find out one way or the other, by experience - it won't much matter.