[war] is it live??? or memorex???

alchemike · Dec 13, 2001

hmmm...me not so sure it's him...

compare yourself...

thoughts???

o)<

mike

alchemike · Dec 13, 2001

[war] soorry...compare to this one...

oops...meant to have both photos in the same space...

o)<

mike

xtreme_right · Dec 13, 2001

I haven't seen the footage yet, which one is from
the tape?

XR

alchemike · Dec 13, 2001

clarification...

first photo is from obl's website...

http://amerika.org/osama_bin_ladin/pictures.html

2nd photo from the most recent video everyone is yapping about...

http://msnbc.com/news/670119.asp

o)<

mike

xtreme_right · Dec 13, 2001

Why isn't anyone else noticing that he doesn't
look like OBL? That guy is alot heavier, his face
is rounder and his nose is different. Why does his
face look fuzzy compared to the rest of the
picture? I had believed this tape to be authentic,
but now I am starting to wonder.

XR

alchemike · Dec 13, 2001

binny tv

o)<

mike

Gods1sheep · Dec 13, 2001

I only got to see about two minutes of the tape at work. Figure I will have to wait until they replay it tonight. But I couldn't tell if the man who the camera was fixed upon was supposed to be bin Laden, or if it were going to pan to someone else in the group. Because I knew at once that the man centered in the frame, the one in your second photo, had a totally different physiognamy from bin Laden's. Not even close. Wider head and face, shorter nose and face. Stouter body frame.

Are you saying this second guy is being said to be bin Laden? If so, you're right, he ain't. These new face scanners would know that in a heartbeat.

But...IF anyone were going to "fake" such a video, with all of Hollywood's talents at their disposal they would never in their wildest dreams use an actor so disparate in physiognamy and build from bin Laden. We may be considered sheeple, but surely not total fools.

What then? There has got to be an explanation.

Reliance · Dec 13, 2001

Why wouldn't we be considered total fools? I can't load the tape at work. Will rely on your reports for now.

Gods1sheep · Dec 13, 2001

Because it would be evident to those making a phoney film that it would be instantly detected as such by the extreme disparity between the face of bin Laden that we see daily on the news, and this man in the second photo. And if I had the resources to fake a movie like this, I would also have the money and the savvy and the contacts to make it so realistic that the actor in the part of bin Laden would be such a close body double that no one would be the wiser. Just my way of seeing my own "MO," if I were being dishonest.

Also, how about changing the title of this thread, because if it said more of the real topic, it would be drawing more attention, and I think this is very relevant for people to see TODAY.

Thanks in advance!

2ifbyc · Dec 13, 2001

Thanks Mike

I watched it on a Media Player,the thought crossed my mind,I wrote it off to poor resolution.

Ay Carumba!!!!!!

MIJ

Annmarie · Dec 13, 2001

Isn't that second photo the man Osama bin Laden was talking to? That sure isn't Osama bin Laden.

rb. · Dec 13, 2001

I don't know, Dragger, but I taped it as I had to go out. I watched part of it live, and most of that time it was his profile. I kept thinking "Man, that guy's got one LONG, THIN nose, very close to his face (not sticking out). I'm popping the tape back in to check again. Your second pic doesn't look like what I saw on tv.

CeeBee · Dec 13, 2001

What if Al Qaeda cooked up a fake video and planted it knowing the administration wouldn't be able to resist showing it, and then the video would be discredited, in so doing, discredit the administration? Sneaky.

Loon · Dec 13, 2001

Annmarie is right. There are two men pictured in the tape. One is bin Laden and the second one is the man he's talking to in the tape.......forget his name now. Two different people.

Edited to add the second man's name:

Shaykh.......

jeannie · Dec 13, 2001

The tape was entertaining, but not as disturbing to me as the media made it out to be. And why show it backwards? The last part first.

I completely agree that the video I saw on MSNBC was not obl. I noticed that from the beginning he appeared much larger than other photos & videos recently shown of him. Even the fake obl's demeanor was not consistent with other tapes released.

If anyone else watched the MSNBC version, did anyone else notice that the filmer was snickering several times during the taping?

Rumsfeld was a little more than agitated at the Q & A afterward, and wouldn't vouch for the tape's authenticity...he doesn't speak Arabic, doncha know.

The bottom line is, what would be the motive for showing a fake tape to the public?

2ifbyc · Dec 13, 2001

No way
The toady is on the right,and he has a rag on his head!!

MIJ

psylenced · Dec 13, 2001

Edited: I take back my comments until I am able to see a better version of the tape.

rb. · Dec 13, 2001

I think it's him, after looking at my tape, but it almost looks as if his nose has been broken. Now I'm trying to see a pulled back shot to see what levels they're all sitting at. He's a tall man (ok, scumbucket), so even his upper body should be longer. Which means since they're heads are about equal height, he must be sitter lower. Now if they'd just pull back, I can check it out.

Homestyle · Dec 13, 2001

Couldn't voice patterns be matched to be certain it is laden's voice?

jed brulen · Dec 13, 2001

Maybe their motive was to show bin Laden as a fat buffoon.

Oops the bozo outfit is on Rumsfeld.

:lol:

A blind man could see that not bin Laden.

Gods1sheep · Dec 13, 2001

Osama has ALWAYS had a long, broken-looking nose! He has always also had a long, thin face. He also has had a narrower brow and different browline than the man in the second photo.

I just went to WorldNetDaily.com and the CNN small excerpt there is SO tiny one can scarcely see the face, but I sat up close to the pc and watched carefully. The second man has a NICE nose, NOT long and NOT broken-looking. He is the one speaking (and occasionally gesturing in a way that is meant to be reminiscent of bin Laden, but doesn't catch his mannerisms perfectly, from several videos we've seen over and over on TV) whenever they scroll the words supposedly being spoken by bin Laden.

I'm wondering if the poster who said that this could be a plant that bin Laden made to discredit the US could be right. If so, didn't the US know that it was clearly a setup, since this man is SO unlike bin Laden that anyone with half an eye could see that?!

And yes, 2ifbyC is right, the "flunky" is on the right and not wearing the trademark white hat of bin Laden, but a "rag."

rb. · Dec 13, 2001

Well, Dragger, I just went to your link with the bin Laden pics. Tape's running at the same time. Sure looks like it's him to me. Some pics on the site his nose looks more "chiseled" than others. Must be the lighting. I really can't see the US being duped and running it. They certainly know what he looks like, and probably have a multitude of pictures of him. They'd stand to lose by "creating" him on tape, as they know the arabic world will probably scrutinize this tape beyond belief. Angles, lighting, and the lense used will surely have a lot to do with his appearance. (Remember the bomb pics some time back, where differenct lenses made one seem absolutely huge?)

By the way, has anyone disputed the voice? There's enough of his babble floating around on tape where we're sure it's him. I'm sure the US would have checked that, as well, if there was any question.

stevridie · Dec 13, 2001

I'm betting that OBL releases a tape to Al Jazeera or whatever in the next few days. And he will personally confirm or deny that was him in this new video. Hopefully that should silence the conspiracy nuts.

Gods1sheep · Dec 13, 2001

Though I feel sure bin Laden committed the 9-11 crimes and intends more, I still do not believe this is him in the video...UNLESS...he had radical plastic surgery recently, which they think perhaps Mullah Omar did. If so, the surgeon had remarkable abilities, to widen his skull, shorten his face, and give him a much, much shorter nose, one that is not plastered nearly flat to his face as originally, but has a profile to it. He also would have put on a remarkable amount of weight for a man with kidney trouble, who has one leg in the grave, and who has been painfully thin in all his videos and photos, going 'way back.

So although I haven't an acceptable answer to the mystery, having just printed out in COLOR on our excellent new color copier that catches everything, and looking at them through a magnifying glass, I only know that the man purported to be bin Laden has either had a miraculous change in appearance or this isn't bin Laden.

We peons will never know, will we?

3D · Dec 13, 2001

The above picture couldn't be the sheik guy, cause his towel is wrapped different. Why is OBL's face so much darker than the guy he's talking to? Anyone got any profile shots of OBL before this tape? I don't remember his nose being so flat.

http://206.112.97.70/focus/fr/589879/posts - pics from OBL tape.

rb. · Dec 13, 2001

Ok, guys. If you've got this on tape, go to the beginning of the last segment - the arrival. He comes in the door behind another man, is much taller, and must duck under the doorway. It's him. All the rest is poor lighting and poor resolution.

Gods1sheep · Dec 13, 2001

Looking_glass, bin Laden's photo at top is like all those in the press and his TV videos...a long, very flat-to-his-face nose. He also has an elongated skull. If you compare skull types on both photos, which I've now printed out on our new excellent color copier that catches everything, and use a magnifying glass besides, those faces bear NO resemblance to one another, beyond the streaked middle of the beard and the white pillbox hat...period.

This second man, the one on the video has a wider brow, shorter skull, wider, lower forehead, different eyebrow, different mouth (seen with magnifier), thick "pouchy" cheeks versus sunken cheeks of bin Laden.

Unless bin Laden had magnificent recent plastic surgery, which a rumor had it Omar did, and gained an amazing amount of weight for a man who has kidney trouble and one foot in the grave, and who's been on the run, and who has always been painfully thin...then this is NOT...NOT...NOT bin Laden.

And remember: I am NOT one of the conspiracy theorists here, and have refuted them all along vehemently, for trying to divide our nation when we need to be united to survive.

I honestly have no more answers than anyone else here has on why this subterfuge, or this glaring error, but I think we've just been had, and it scares the living daylights out of me to think it.

It COULD be bin Laden's way of making fools of our leaders, but then, why wouldn't they see that as quickly as John Q. Public did, and know they'd be the subject of ridicule if we saw the differences in these two men?

I'd like to crawl under the covers now.....

Reliance · Dec 13, 2001

Early on in Sept, I thought that OBL would take credit, even if none due. Why not? This tape could be a more believable way to take credit, could have been taped well after the event.

- Devil's Advocate

Gods1sheep · Dec 13, 2001

BUT...why the disparity in physiognomy and body type, Reliance, if this IS bin Laden???

rb. · Dec 13, 2001

Gods1sheep,

If you're going strictly by the photo above, it's not representative of the tape. I taped the whole works off CNN today. That's one of the blurriest, most distorted shots in the whole video.

snooze button · Dec 13, 2001

Both men appear to be the same, if you allow for lighting differences and watch the footage on tv. It will be aired again on MSNBC-TV on cable sometime today. Lighting can change apparent color saturation levels and make someone look completely different. If he looks darker and less distinct, you wont see his upper nose line which is quite thin and then hi nose will look shorter, etc, etc. It is the same guy. Everybody settle down. DOD did voice print analysis, etc and it is kosher. Apparently high tech intel told them a likely place to look (previous secret meeting locations) and they got lucky and found this tape. It is legit.

Reliance · Dec 13, 2001

Well, G1S, I looked at some snaps of the footage. The left hand side guy looked like OBL, the RHS looked like the chubby guy up top here.

IMO

bigwavedave · Dec 13, 2001

G1S wrote - I'm wondering if the poster who said that this could be a plant that bin Laden made to discredit the US could be right. If so, didn't the US know that it was clearly a setup, since this man is SO unlike bin Laden that anyone with half an eye could see that?!

i don't know how much convincing the american people really need, so i was sorta stunned by the lack of faith here today. you already know i have more than my share of doubts over this entire escapade.

only OBL can verify the credibility of this tape, but nobody is going to believe what he says anyway, so what's the point?

the risk the administration has taken is a potential loss of support from muslim countries party to the coalition. and just how important is that? intelligent minds will differ.

this may be a tactic to smoke out those islamic 'allies' who really aren't - the pressure is on those governments to take a stand (you're either with us or for the terrorists) - by virtue of their accepting the veracity of the tape or not. if that is the case, a faked tape serves the administration well with little potential downside.

if we are to believe the words via the transcript (not all of which i've read yet), there is an acknowledgement, in my mind, that OBL at the very least knows in advance about the attacks, but he seems to be a bit sketchy on the details. from what i've read, i can't determine that he was the planner of the 911 events. very supportive of the results, no doubt about that.

the first thing i thought of when seeing that larger OBL photo was, "he seems heavier and puffier." (assuming the photo does represent the person known as OBL). he has a history of kidney disease. maybe he got a transplant and is now on prednisone? that will provide the observed effect.

jed brulen · Dec 13, 2001

I've looked at all the pictures posted on bin Laden from freepers, the video tape and bin Laden's site. Although there is some resemblance I can't for certain say its the same person. The nose is wrong. That's my biggest sticking point. There are other dissimilarities as well which could be age related. However my first impression was they are different people and try as I might, I can't match them. The video, imho is a clever fake.

:kk2:

Patrick · Dec 13, 2001

.....As a portrait artist, I am probably a bit more keen on facial features than most; there is no way these are the same face, regardless what lighting, camera angle or any other variant one mentions... The problem I have, besides the face, is the translation; it was said they had four “outside” translators, but a languange expert from Cal State said that they had not even the rudimentary rules of Arabic in play...

.....Why wouldn’t the government take us all for complete fools? They have certainly proven it enough times; simple-minded American sheep, watching sports and knowing batting averages dating back for years and cannot tell you the order of the country’s chief executive... I agree with them...

Senses On · Dec 13, 2001

Okay, how many of you watched the entire tape on the first public run-through?

I did.

The lips, man, the lips. And that surliness is hard to duplicate. I didn’t even get a hint that this guy didn’t look just like the various photos I have seen of bin Laden. And the composite moving video didn’t leave any image in my head resembling photo #2. The man (UBL) is very tall. The Shaykh is paralyzed from the waste down and is on more cushions.

Photo #2 is not the man known in the tape as the Shaykh. He has a completely black beard and roundish face. However, it could be the man sitting to the LEFT of bin Laden and who appears only briefly in the tape.

The tape is out of sequence because they began it at the end of a tape (following the helicopter parts) and when the tape ran out they started recording over the beginning section (which, before it was taped over, was prior to the “booty call” and the “picnic at the dump,” and boring panning of blown-up helicopter parts).

UBL and the Shaykh were wearing *exactly* the same kind of head gear. At one point, the Shaykh removed the long white wrap-around part and revealed a light-colored pillbox type hat beneath it. Then he wrapped his head again.

It is going to take a lot more than that fuzzy freeze-frame, purported to be from the video, to convince me that it wasn’t UBL in the video.

Amazed · Dec 13, 2001

capt.1008274118attacks_bin_laden_tape_bnc127.jpg

This frame is from the video. OBL is on the right.

Amazed · Dec 13, 2001

capt.1008294912attacks_bin_laden_tape_bnc136.jpg

Suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden, left, is shown
in this frame grab from a videotape released and
translated by the Department of Defense, at the
Pentagon, Thursday, Dec. 13, 2001, in Washington.
U.S. officials translated audio conversations on the
videotape from Arabic to English, which they say
shows bin Laden talking about the Sept. 11, 2001
terrorist attacks on the United States. The man at
right is unidentified. (AP Photo/Department of
Defense, HO)

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20011213/us/1008294912attacks_bin_laden_tape_bnc136.html

Amazed · Dec 13, 2001

Islamic militant Osama bin Laden is shown in this
video image released by the U.S. Defense
Department, December 13, 2001. The videotape
has bin Laden talking about the attack on and
collapse of the World Trade Center. (Dept. Of
Defense via Reuters)

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20011213/ts/mdf100166.html

bigwavedave · Dec 13, 2001

hey, close enough for government work . . .

but seriously, the guy doesn't look THAT different from what we've been told is a guy purportedly named bin laden.

but i digress . . .

[war] is it live??? or memorex???

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